[00:00:02] Speaker A: KMUD Podcast presents.
Oh, welcome to Mindful Mud.
I am Florina Nikli, your host. I'm a Zen teacher and mindfulness instructor.
First thanks to KMAT for hosting us here and my son Julian for engineering. The show is about mindfulness and the many ways we can implement it in our lives.
Today we are very fortunate to have Sandy Hart as a guest.
She's the author of Liminal Odyssey, the Alchemical Power of the Spaces in Between.
Sandy is, as she's saying, foremost a grandmother and a mother.
From the steep seaside cliffs of Southern California.
She's an award winning leader in the fields of women's empowerment and interfaith community building.
She founded the Women's Interfaith Grassroots international organization.
Sera.
Sandy is actively engaged in leadership in the peace, interfaith compassion, community building and women empowerment sectors.
There is so much I could say about you, Sandy. Perhaps just one more thing. Sandy has conducted countless workshops and produced major and smaller events in more than seven countries. Presented on panels in universities, global and local organizations and cities and state level institutions.
So welcome, Sandy.
Wow.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Says it all. I'm really delighted to be here. Thank you for that warm welcome.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Sandy, for being here. So as I said, Sandy wrote this fantastic book, the Liminal Odyssey. And he really took me on a journey when I read it.
It's quite. Yeah, it's quite a trip.
It really is diving in there and it's kind of transforming you while you read it. So I'm really cur. Because first I was like, liminal Odyssey, what does that mean? Like, can you like help out, help us out here a little bit?
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Absolutely. Sure. That is a clunky word to say. It's a brand new word to me right before I started to even sit down to write this book. And liminal means threshold.
It means the spaces in between, the space in between.
It means that space that is non determinant and dependent on where you go next. It can be a hallway. Architects actually use the term liminal and have for, I don't know how long to describe stairways and staircases and, or parks, the open space that you live in.
And for me, a liminal made perfect sense because it's about having agency over that space. It's what you do in that space. And that space could be between a crisis and a solution.
A moment of choice that you have to make on the fly. It could be, you know, an evolutionary growth spurt we're in right now. It could be between civilizations. You know, it's really, what are we Doing in this time, in this space, and also the space in between your thoughts.
So, yeah, it's applicable to any space.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Wow.
So really tiny spaces and really big spaces.
Really personal little spaces and really global spaces.
It's powerful. Space is so powerful. Yeah.
You know, when I read the book, you're telling so many stories in there.
And in a way, it's the storytelling that helps us understand how things are kind of weaved together, how they come together, how it's almost like magically created underneath it. All right.
It's like a net that holds everything together. And often we're in our daily lives and we have no clue about this. If we don't slow down and go into that space.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: That's. That's exactly right.
That was what I discovered as I was writing the book. I didn't intend to write this, such a book about how woven our lives are, our stories are.
I sat down to tell a single story that happened to me in 1982 at a no Nukes rally that was remarkable that my friends have been urging me to tell for some time.
And I thought, I just don't have enough of a story to write until.
And it took about 15 years of picking it up and putting it down. Then my computer crashed and I lost what I did have. And then I thought, I'm just going to have another go at it. And then I heard this word liminal. I'm like, okay, what was going on in that moment between this call to action, which is what it was for me, and what I did with that call to action and what resulted in this story?
And as I started writing, I. Before I knew it, I had not only more than a few pages, I had an entire chapter.
And then another story came out of me. It's like, yeah, there's some relativity there. And that incident happened because of this incident. So I started writing about that, another chapter. And my. You know, when you said this was an interesting or fascinating journey, that's my life.
And for me, my hope is that everybody takes some time in those spaces in between and starts looking at their life and that that what may have seemed like a mundane story or interesting at best, and start thinking about that liminal space and. And start writing about it or whatever, however you process and.
And just see where it goes. And I know I'll put money on it that everyone who's listening has a more fascinating story or book of stories than I have. And I. That's my hope is that everybody takes some time to discover and disclose what those stories Are.
It's a. It's magical. It really. It's so much fun. And it's fun.
So.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: So you're saying you just were urged kind of to put the story down and, and that's how the whole book evolved, Right? Then you started to realize there's other stories connected to that and then your whole life. And so it, it took you on a journey.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. It was. And then journey wasn't a big enough word for it.
That's why I came up with the word Odyssey. I started thinking of the wild frontier of the wide open galaxy, you know, that could go anywh left, right. On a journey, you kind of go sort of linear in a way.
But it wasn't just the stories that disclosed themselves to me in the writing of this book. It was the lessons, the skills, the methodologies, the science, the philosophies, the indigenous shared knowledge. Because I had the privilege of hanging out with all these folks in the last 20 years of doing this work.
And so these are all the kind of lessons and the things I picked up along the way.
And I thought, oh, wow, that really speaks to mindfulness and what Dr. Bruce Lipton refers to when he's talking about, you know, in, you know, our cellular structure and how thoughts happen outside of the cells and gene activation and all that, how our thoughts inform, you know, our reality and our reality, our thoughts inform everything.
Which led me to paying attention to the sacred art of listening and reverence for listening, what that meant. So every chapter is anchored in that particular philosophy. So there's the story anchored with that philosophy.
Then another layer revealed itself.
I thought, what's going on here? Maybe the book's not about these stories or this storyline. Maybe it's about these.
What's happening now? Because I started finding myself acutely proficient in a lot of these skills as I'm writing them. And I discovered what it was. Florina. I discovered that because I was practicing them all. Reverent listening, mindfulness, body awareness, understanding the neural neuroplasticity, understanding the.
The biology and the parasympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system, paying attention to indigenous prophecy and indigenous culture and grandmother's wisdom. I go on other 11 of these skills from 11 very diverse areas of my life. Anyway, and I pulled them out and I looked at them separately, and I thought, wow, they're all interdependent and interrelated and. And it's. So it's not just one.
That was the answer for me because I really thought, okay, here's the Book I'm pulling off the shelf today because I need some mindfulness.
No, it's practicing them all as a cohesive unit.
And that then I thought, oh, wow, there's a philosophy here.
And that was another level that was revealed. So it's this multidimensional, multifaceted book. I don't really even know what to call it. It's a genre unto itself.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: It's so true. It really is. And it just. I feel like I do really would love to kind of dive in a little bit into these 12 skills, because they're such, there's such value in it. And when you just said how they're interwoven, I feel like it's that 13 skills, that skill that you have of seeing how they are connected.
That's a, that's, that's another skill by itself, right?
[00:10:25] Speaker B: It is, absolutely. That was the outcome. And it's actually 12. There are actually 11 skills. But the 12th is really demonstrating in the last chapter an experience I had in Auschwitz that I could not explain, had I not been prepared in writing this book to get to that chapter in that way.
And it made all the difference in the world. And for me it was the big tada. It was the big nut. And I'm like, yeah, this is one super skill.
The trust frequency is the bonding agent, cultivating synchronicities. And we can get into that, but they all definitely.
And, and then if you, you're perhaps in meditation, which I don't talk about, you're going to add your own skills into that and your own methodologies and modalities that help you.
There's room for that in this petri dish?
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Well, I think, yes. I mean, that's the beautiful thing. We're all so different and we're also the same.
And discovering. And this is also part of those skills. Right. Discovering our skill and making it, as you say, our own petri dish. But the question is, are we mindful? Are we listening? Are we really tuning in? And these qualities for me are really.
When I started to get through these skills and I'm like, yeah, this is basically the baseline to creating a mindful life in practicality, not just somewhere, like in theory. Right. Somewhere. Yeah. We can talk nice, nice words and read nice books, but in the end, it's where the rubber, you know. Yeah. Where the real stuff happens.
Can we really apply it? Can we work with that? And, and, and how.
So can we. Shall we dive into these 12 skills?
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Let's go, let's go.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: And again. Right, so Each chapter is somehow showing one of those skills.
Is that right?
[00:12:18] Speaker B: And as you go through it demonstrates how they all build together. I don't just talk about chapter one and leave it there. It threads through. You see the congruency?
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit like ingredients to baking a cake.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: They all need to get together and meld. Right. And. And yeah. And we all have our own cake. Or you rather want something else. But yeah. Okay. So the first skill, sacred art of listening. Can you say more?
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Reverent listening.
This was something that I learned of by Reverend K. Lindahl, who wrote the book the Sacred Art of Listening. And one thing I will a lot of credit for, and that is that I give credit where credit is due because I'm. She is the master in the sacred art of listening. And.
And I've been in so many of her workshops and learned so much from her that so much of my learn. And by the way, everything I'm going to share here is a practice. So I'm so glad you mentioned that this is not just some, you know, glossy vision. I'm so tired of people telling me how lovely it is when you get there. Right. I mean, practical steps to help you get there. And I believe it and I've held on to that. But then what happens? You let yourself down because you're not there and you tried it, it didn't work. So these are all practices. So listening is just the most powerful skill. And it just worked out that it would be chapter one.
Because not only do we discover in that book that we really don't do a very good job of listening to others, but we certainly forget to listen to ourselves. Only 17% of our consc. Day, our waking day, is in mindful listening, is in real conscious listening. Really, truly listening. And then, you know, there's this beautiful, beautiful quote by Douglas Steers that goes that to listen another into a condition of discovery and disclosure may almost be the greatest service one human. Human being performs for another.
Have you ever, I guess, got full body? Have you ever been listened to, Lorena?
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: Were you just coming from your mouth or things that you just didn't that just revealed themselves to you?
[00:14:51] Speaker A: For me, it's again, it's like if somebody creates that space for you, it's like the secret space holding that you create. And then some suddenly somebody can really share.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Right. And discovering themselves. Discovery and disclosure of their soul's purpose even. I've been listened to by K. On countless occasions. She's a friend and my mentor. I've been in her workshops and I've had that experience firsthand, you know, and it. It's funny when you start paying attention to how you listen and.
And I know I was very guilty of this, that I would find myself thinking about what I'm going to say when this person's done talking or finding something that I can pull to bring it back to me.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: So.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: And that I think that's part of just our social animal skills, so we can relate, make them feel. Yeah, I get it. I was there too. And here's my story. And next thing you know, you. They're left, you know, not complete, perhaps even with their story.
So it is a practice, and I love this practice to practice to cultivate listening. And it takes time. It's okay if you don't get it right away. As a matter of fact, if you do, you're a superhero.
And I don't know that even Kay would call herself a superhero. So here's a simple practice.
You can start with one minute. Check inside.
Just check in. What are you feeling? How are you breathing?
You can. It just. You don't even have to take a whole minute. You could set a timer. And then I suggest doing it five times a day, right? So what do we do five times a day? We go into the ladies room or the restroom. I'm sorry, gentlemen, the bathroom. We go into the bathroom five times a day. So you're stepping over the threshold, take a second and go, where's my body at right now? How am I feeling? Now? This. This is a twofer because not only are you practicing cultivating the art of listening in to yourself, but you're also becoming more intimate with your body and sensations in your body too, which is another important skill.
So that's a really good one to practice. And by the way, right now, if you're sitting down, ask yourself, am I comfortable in the position I'm in right now?
I can't tell you how many times, like right now it's like, oh, yeah, I have total control over how I sit in my chair, and I don't even realize I'm not comfortable. That's an act of not really truly listening in, even though it's a different kind of listening than we may be talking about. So there's listening in and listening out.
So also pay attention to how you're listening out, right? And are you truly with the person?
Are you truly engaged? Are you truly performing this gorgeous, gracious, sacred act of listening to another condition of discovery and disclosure?
[00:17:51] Speaker A: It's it's brilliant. You know when you say, well, one of the simple practices we can do, and then immediately you go to listening to ourselves. And I think most, I mean, at least that's what happened for me. I was like, I was all excited to hear like a partner exercise. And of course you're like now and we do forget. I mean, it is the most important if we can't think to listen to ourselves, if we can't really listen to ourselves, we're lost in listening to anybody else.
It's one of those things I teach in mindfulness classes for adults and kids is mindful listening.
And it's interesting how many people are surprised how hard that really is to not even just. I often give the idea of, okay, can you just listen for one minute without saying a word?
And that alone is so hard. And then noticing the thoughts, am I thinking about what I'm going to say next? Right.
Noticing those thoughts, noticing.
And then what happens when somebody doesn't talk anymore? We can listen to each other's silence.
That's listening too. Right.
And we're so not good at that.
We're trying to fill that space.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: And it's a practice.
It really is. Just like meditation is a practice. You don't beat yourself up. You go, okay, come back to my breath or come back to my listening.
Am I listening for understanding or am I passing judgment? Now there can be some contemplative thoughts going on, going, but am I really listening? And before you know it. And it's a skill you cultivate, it's a muscle you build muscle with for.
And it's going to show up in a few places. And I'll, and I'll demonstrate those as we go along down the list. But you'll be surprised. And it's sneaky too. It's a fun exercise because it starts showing up in other ways.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's transformative for sure. Yes. Yeah. So next, the second skill or just one other skill.
Timefulness.
How much I love that one.
Yeah. The potency of the moment.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah. We've been duped to believe we've got to do things fast. Commercials come at us every 10 seconds, right? We, we're flooded with information at a rapid speed. You know, our world is speeding up. Technology is, is overwhelming. It really is. Right? So wait, let's take control. I mean that time is a man made construct. I coined the word timefulness because we know we're practicing mindfulness. We know how to be careful, thoughtful.
But we, let's practice being timeful A decision can be made three seconds later or a whole minute later. We've, you know, we've.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: We've.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: This has a lot to do with consumerism, too, and those commercials that are flooding us, this information overload, whether or not you watch television or not. We're all influenced by one another.
And we've lost ourselves in that as a society.
Right. As a society.
So this is an opportunity to question assumptions, to practice awareness about what's going on and to think, is that really what makes me wealthy? Happy?
Then I buy their stuff. Or it is what they're saying, even though I admire them, really the way for me.
So timefulness also is where you. Where everything else happens. It is a liminal space. So we get to create. We say, well, there's no liminal space in my day. Well, I've got another thing for you. Another. You know, there's 60 seconds in a minute. There's 60 liminal spaces in one minute. So you pick your. You choose, you know where your space is and practice timefulness. And, yeah, practice that grace in that timefulness.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: I notice how, as you said, our society is so, so fast and it's so driven in so many ways, and this go, go, go, do, do, do. Faster, faster, faster, more, more, more.
And I notice how fast it takes me in, even just in little things like my to do list. Oh, I'm really gonna have to do it all.
And, and, and we think that when we are trying really fast and really hard, we get somewhere better.
And of course, it's not true.
Then, as you say, timefulness doesn't mean you sit down for an hour.
Timefulness means you just slow down and you start tuning into that moment. And suddenly that moment that might be 20 seconds feels like an hour and you're rejuvenated because you just stopped.
And for me at least, it's like we make real decisions and we're not just, you know, puppets making some kind of automated decisions. And then later I'm gonna regret it absolutely.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: There's another really important place for timefulness. And.
And that is in paying attention to what may seem mundane is really miraculous.
There's a beautiful prayer poem by Lisa Lee. She's a reverend and out of Unity Church in Southern Nevada.
And.
And this is one line in that prayer or poem. It's a. For me, it's a prayer. It is the child in us that knows to ask, where am I going? Or how do I get there? Is to miss the crimson red rose growing out of the crack in the sidewalk that Happens in timefulness to ask where you know, also be in a state of on wonder about what's going on.
It's okay not to know where you're going or what you're doing or have anybody tell you or inform you and to stop and go, wow, what was that about?
Wait, why am I seeing a rose here? And I just saw rose and Sandy Hart was just talking to mention roses the other day. You know, we're going to get to synchronicities. But that happens in time fullness. That happens because you allowed the space for that awareness to happen.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah. You. Yeah. You're not missing. You're not missing your life.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: That's, to me, the biggest travesty.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: It is.
[00:24:44] Speaker B: If I had just this one incident that happened in 1982, if I had just done. Oh, okay, that's a kind of this happened and on with the rest of my day. I mean, oh, my stars. I hate to think of everything that I would. I can't live my life. I can't imagine living my life without what I live through because of all that. So anyway, yeah, timefulness is powerful, Dash. Full powerful.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yeah. It's where freedom lies in a way for me.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: And then you're writing about another skill. Forgiveness, sacrifice and bliss.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's tough. Forgiveness is hard. It's always been really hard for me. And I'm not going to pretend it's not hard for everybody because. But I really think that, you know, for me, I had it all wrong.
You know, I heard you can forgive, but you don't want to forget.
I mean, but you. You can forget, and you've just got to forget.
And I never, never landed on me.
And.
And I have a hard time, you know, just in my judgy personality.
But really what it was, was recognizing getting to a place how I alchemized forgiveness is. Let me put it this way, is when I recognize in writing this book when I realized all of those things that I would have considered really requiring forgiveness from somebody who really hurt me.
Figuratively socked me in the throat. You know, I've had the wind knocked out of me, kept me in bed for a couple of months.
Really, I changed high schools.
You know, I mean, it was. I've had some devastating small T traumas and big T traumas and.
But looking at my life now and all the stories that came from that, I can really practice gratitude for that experience.
So to alchemize forgiveness with gratitude doesn't mean just say thank you for this experience, but. But thank you for it, this experience, making up my beautiful parts, right? For me, that was just writing that sentence. It didn't. I did not write that sentence. That sentence came right out of my fingertips. I didn't have a whole lot to do with it. It was one of the. One of the writings that I grabbed my head and goes, where did that come. Where does that come from? Where did that come from?
The experience leads to. To creating all of our beautiful parts that make up who we are so we can move forward. And for me, I don't want to forget. I want to remember in gratitude that, like the art form Kintsugi, you know, this Japanese art form, or a vase is broken and it's mended with gold. And that gold, those gold seams make it more beautiful and stronger than it ever was.
So for me, that is how I alchemize forgiveness.
And.
And then the sacrifice is really just the vulnerability, giving into that and being willing to see that. And then the bliss is, well, you'll know it. And if you don't already, what happens when you get to that point, right? And this is what our soul wants. And I do believe, and I really speak a lot about, you know, our soul's purpose and engaging our soul and thinking through the lens of our soul. And I really do believe that our life here on this planet is to free our soul.
And that happens through bliss.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: And bliss happens for me, like when you say it's like when you.
When you stop that struggle against the difficulty when. Or the hard experiences, it is in the end what really can create the bliss. At least that's. That's my life story of like going through these intense times of suffering or of. Of of illness, disease, and then coming out because of the willingness to. To be with it and to learn from it and to go through. And I'm not saying you might not be willing while you're super sick, right. Even though we can even practice that one.
But eventually, seeing it's all a pattern, it's all an unfolding and nothing is love that. You wrote this in the book too. It's like everything is for us.
And that's such a different, different framing of our story. When we can start to understand everything is here for us, can we lean into it? Can we be with that?
And for me, this is really what.
Yeah, again, what. What my life experiences. And then if I can do that, there is bliss. And it has nothing to do with how easy or how hard that moment is. It has to do with my accept. Solve it.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yes, yes, beautifully Put. Really beautifully put. And I'm. I can only speak for myself. This is not just a theory. You know, I'm a student of this.
I recently had what I could have received as an absolute devastating.
Some absolutely devastating news.
And I caught myself like a second into receiving the information, going, what's going on here? What's this about?
Right. Be here now. But imagine what you're gonna. What's. What possibilities may come from this. So there's that. On. Wonder if you can turn. Take just a moment and separate yourself from your nervous system about what is happening to you and go, what is happening for me right now with reverence, reverent listening, really listening in.
Right. And how am I receiving this? And it's my choice.
And by the way, let's give my nervous system and my vital organs a little break here. Right. Because I am doing damage to them. I like to think if I am really stressing out.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
And because we were so in the zone, I'm gonna let everybody know. I have a wonderful guest here with me on zoom, Sandy Hart, who wrote the book the Liminal Odyssey.
And we're talking about just how we can become more mindful and more aware of the magic in our lives and how to practice to get more of that skill and. And what the different skills are, too.
Yeah. So we have been talking about different skills. And let's talk about. Oh, this is a good one. That I think we so need the we are nature, that connectiveness to nature. I feel like when I look around and. And working with people and. And looking at societies, like it's what.
It's really what's gone missing that everybody thinks. I don't know what we like. It seems like sometimes people treat each other like robots or like not even human anymore. It's like we're just part of nature. We're part of this whole beautiful thing that's alive. So. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Well, yeah, this is part of our. You know, this is part of patriarchy's charms, is to have us believe we are separated from the nature of who we are.
Okay. Consumerism is in that too. Right.
Right. We don't need the gifts of nature to heal us. Buy our pharmaceutical products, and then we'll sell you more drugs to get you off those pharmaceutical products. And that's an.
And I don't have to talk about Big Pharma now, but. And I think that, of course, there's room for everybody to. Within reason.
Yet I do want to say that, you know, we can think the agrarian age for teaching us to take from Earth, you know, before that, where we lived in, you know, societies that, that were on Earth, that were.
That were egalitarian, feminine, nature goddesses were unearthed everywhere. You know, we know that. That there was an actual relationship with the Earth. And indigenous cultures haven't forgotten that.
And so when we remember our relationship to our planet and we share a heartbeat with our planet, and the planet just gives and gives and gives and gives, and what do we do? We take. We take. We take.
That not only creates that degree of separation of just absolute disregard for our Mama Gaia, it also.
Why not treat everybody like that? Why not, like you said, forget that we are all connected.
We all, we all contribute to the energetic field around us with our thoughts, with our actions, with our attitude, with our. With our angst, with our joy, with our everything.
Everybody can feel it at some level. And so to remember that we are in relationship to one another as well, and that's a hard nut to follow because once again, we've been duped into believing that, hey, you know, it's just what we see on the surface here, you know, don't believe that. What you cannot see.
[00:34:25] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I think we have a caller as I. Oh, great color. You're on the air.
[00:34:33] Speaker C: Yes. Oh, what a beautiful conversation.
So moving.
Yeah, Soulful.
And I was struck by you saying, look around and not what's happening to us, but what's happening for us is like a very important way to look at life because then you're looking for the good.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: Right, Right. We have a choice. Right. Tell me your name.
[00:35:09] Speaker C: Yeah, so I just want to say that I went to ecstatic dance today and everyone was ecstatic.
So it is possible, you know, when you're talking about bliss, you know, I came and went in the room, so I didn't catch it all in complete sentences, but, you know, babies are in bliss if they're handled right.
And so. Keep on talking. I'm listening.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us in that bliss. And we do have a choice, right? We have a choice to dance or to curl up in a ball.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: Thank you, caller. Yeah, so when we go back to that remembering, because it's not a creating that we're nature, we're nature. It's just we forget or society has sometimes forgotten or on purpose makes us forget.
Right. Because we're not as strong if we forget. We're very easily manipulated. Right.
So how do you practice that remembering that access to nature.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Go into nature if you can, you may not live, you may live in the inner city and you may not have access to that. I believe your listeners have greater access than I do here with the ocean grandmother oceans just a couple miles away from me. And I know most of you probably just step outside your door and you're in blissful redwoods.
Yeah, I'm, I'm full body just thinking about it. So be in nature and start looking around at the clues of nature.
How does nature collaborate, cooperate, adapt? Darwin never said survival of the fittest and mean survival with the biggest. You know, it's survival of the most or those who survive, have the biggest teeth and are gnarliest and the most cunning and, and deceitful. No, he was talking about the most compassionate, adaptable.
We, we got lost in the word fit. Let's, let's take back what fit means. Let's be fit like nature.
Look how the, you know, just look at nature and how nature cooperates with itself.
Again, that, that, that simple.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me for sure as well. It's, it's really. When I can go into my garden and, and even just weed or whatever I do in there, it doesn't even matter if I'm planting or harvesting or weeding or cutting stuff. It's like, it's, I can listen to it. I can either be lost in my thoughts, it's always that option, or I can really tune in and look at what's going on.
And then my whole nervous system and everything that I am relaxes and connects and it's such an amazing feeling.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And here's, yeah, it really is an amazing feeling. And, and it really is that easy, you know, for me, I, I, I, I think about where I'm at in a particular circumstance and I think about planting a seed and what that means. Go and plant a seed and think about what's happening at that seed. You know, a seed, when you put into the ground, first has to disintegrate. It first has to fall apart. It has to change its structure so something new can come through too. So another way to practice remembering that we are building that capacity and remembering that we are nature is to relate to that seed.
And as a society right now, where we are, it's just. That's a fascinating time to be alive right now. Talk about gratitude.
Right? It's a fascinating time to be alive right now. And, and, and because that seed is falling apart, that's that tension we're feeling. That's, that not. Systems are breaking down. Systems are falling apart right and that's what. That the song made mention of, that. That this, the. That these times are poignant and systems are.
You know, the tie. The winds are shifting, so we're. We're seeing that seed fall apart right in front of our eyes, but we can know that there's a green fresh sprout coming up. We can also see that by all the visionaries and all the radio hosts like Florina and like all of these theorists coming up, counterbalancing, if not outweighing the fear mongers that are trying to tell us, oh, it's doom and gloom and you better prep. So, but. So we just happen to be the silent majority, unfortunately, but not anymore.
So we can see that green, beautiful sprout that we have no idea what it's going to grow into. We don't know where we're going, but we know we're on our way.
We. It could. It could be a flower, it could be a forest. Chances are it's going to be an entire planet filled with a whole new plantation of bliss. Who knows? But we are the ones that are midwifing that seed right now inside of us at a micro level or and globally.
And I feel a great responsibility and a bigger privilege to be the midwife of that seed, because I don't want to poison the water hole when I get there.
And that's what these skills help us do, get us to our planetary assignment, to be that midwife.
Yeah.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: Wow, Sandy, so amazingly put. I just love that because.
And please all listen, listeners, can you just soak that up?
Because there's so many of the conversations that I'm having. Is this doom, right? Is this hearing from people really, really to the bone, scared of what's gonna come?
And rightly so, in one way. Right? And it's that, it's. It's that dissolving of that seed. I love that picture of, like, remembering we're just nature and that trusting that if we go with that flow, aware and alive and with responsibility, as you say, then because we're connected with nature, nature makes always something beautiful if we go with. If we're connected.
So nature always comes up with compost, even of the stuff we don't need, and it creates an amazing soil again over time to make things flourish. And if we keep talking like this and not just talking, if we live it, if we live that responsibly and really think, what am I nurturing in my.
In my thoughts and in my body and in my actions and in my talk, in my Listening skill, all of it.
That's how I feel.
Yes. It's that responsibility of creating something new that this next generation of Julian that it can be exciting and, and yeah.
So thank you so much for this. This is really rich. Really rich, Sandy. And I really hope you all listeners are. Are taking that in.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: Appreciate what you said in such an. Because I, I also am so sensitive to how difficult these times are financially. I mean, it's hard when you are. Feel like you're in crisis mode.
You know, you've got to feed your family. You might be losing your business that you work so hard on and none count it or sugarcoat it at all.
It might be, not that something's breaking down, but something's breaking through and that's that seed coming out of the soil. It's been nice and comfortable doing something that it thought it was planted to do, and suddenly it's coming out and like, wait, what's this light? Wait, what's this new sprout? I don't recognize this color or this new talent or what have you, so.
And you know, I know we're going to get to it, but trust is really important here. And again, these are skills to cultivate, but really practicing through mindfulness, through repetitive neuroplasticity, through repetitive thought, even, you know, there's some real mechanical tools you can use to really ingrain this into. Make it a habit to think this way.
And you have a choice.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: You have it. I have a choice. When I slow down, when I go into this timefulness, that's where my choice is. Right.
If I'm on autopilot, then my choices are not as rich.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: You miss all the red roses coming out of the sidewalk?
[00:44:13] Speaker A: Yes.
Very well.
[00:44:17] Speaker B: KMUD is a community radio station in the Redwood region of Northern California. Donate Support people powered radioema.org.
[00:44:30] Speaker A: Yes. So I'm talking here with Sandy Hart, the author of this really rich, amazing book, the Liminal Odyssey.
And we're having a conversation about how do we practice this stuff?
Not just how do we talk about it, but how can we practice it and how can we create.
Yeah. A life that works for us. Not just works, but is beautiful and blissful.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: Come to an understanding of our agency in it all, how powerful we are. We create with our thoughts. It really is a thing.
[00:45:07] Speaker A: It really is.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: We really create a reality. It's true.
[00:45:12] Speaker A: Yeah. So we have to be careful.
[00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Definitely. Impeccable. We're going to get to impeccability, right?
[00:45:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we can, we can go wherever we like. So, yeah. So the sacred cultivation of synchronicity is another tool you're mentioning that's fascinating. I'm not very skilled in that, I think. Go for it.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: Oh, it's so fun. Well, the reason I lit up when we got here, I was looking forward to it. For me, it's where evidence of all these practices start showing up.
I think synchronicity, I know synchronicities is how God, spiritual, that speaks to us. However you identify with your connection to all things, no matter what you call it, that's how we're spoken to, is through synchronicities. It's how we. How our attention is brought to where it needs to go. Because when you're listening in and listening out, when you're paying attention to what's going on inside of your body and building the capacity for awareness, when you're recognizing signs in nature, we are becoming more and more aware. And you. There's like a filter is removed from your eyes in a way that you see things that you might have otherwise missed because you've been practicing these practices, right? And all of a sudden you start seeing things that are two unrelated or seemingly unrelated things happening. But there's a common denominator, right? Somebody mentions, they keep finding 11 cents. And I'm sitting on the cliffs and 11 pelicans fly overhead and I count them.
There's a synchronicity there. And what's all this about? What is it on wonder? Is it about the pelicans? Is it about synchronicities? You know, I mean, I mean, 11, the number 11. But paying attention, whether it makes sense here, you come to some conclusion about it or not, it's magic when you start seeing them. We've all experienced synchronicities, you know, I've said, oh, I don't know if it's a coincidence or a synchronicity. Yes, it is. It's a coincidence of messages because it's time to wake up to what that message might be. And it might.
And if you follow it, it's going to lead you into something miraculous.
And it, it usually always does. And I have a story in my book that happened in real time.
While I sat down to write the chapter, a different chapter, I noticed me. Do I have a moment to show this, please?
Okay, so in real time, I am, I am at my daughter's house and I, I noticed something creepy, crawly, crawling under the side table of, you know, in, in my, in my room. And I'm like, what was that? And I And I'm not one to be afraid of these little creatures. So I pick up the table and it was a centipede. I've never seen, I haven't seen a centipede in maybe 40 years.
Okay. And I'm like, why now? When I'm sitting on the bed with Catherine Skaggs, totem animals, deck of tarot cards in my hand, do I see a centipede? What must that mean? Okay, now I'm paying attention. I've been practicing awareness. So now I take these two seemingly unrelated things that are related because of these two conditions and I start thinking about and writing about and I start, well, maybe I need to go through these cards and see, maybe my spirit animal has a centipede, I don't know. And I find another card that it had nothing to do with being a centipede. But I was led to going through the cards in this way in a particular state of on wonder about what was this, what was this all about?
And I came across a card that led me to a memory of a feeling I had that was, you'll just have to read about it because it's a, it's a really good juicy chapter.
And I'm like, wow, I had that same feeling at this other occasion. I started thinking about this other occasion and that led me down another path.
So again, you don't know where the zig or the zag is going to come and where you're going to be led.
The next day I'm sitting on the beach with my computer and my little plastic desktop, you know, that I put over my lap because I did wrote a lot of this at the beach.
And out of the corner of my eye I see something peeking out of the sand. Now this was not a very rocky beach and I wanted to go hunting for heart shaped rocks anyway.
But I'm like, what could that be? Because that's a rock. But why now? There's no rocks anywhere. I'm seeing a rock right there. And I excavate this perfect heart shaped rock.
[00:50:09] Speaker A: Oh, and I can see it. I wish you all could see this. This is beautiful, Sandy. Wow. It's three dimensional too.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: It does. I, I feel like it's curved as to hug my soul. And the thing was about pulling this out of the earth.
It, I had that same feeling as when before I had it unearthed, I got that same rush, holy rush, from the head to my toes and back up again.
And before I, I knew what I wasn't going to unearth before I saw its perfect shape and it is perfectly symmetric and a little bit concave as to hug your soul.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: Just amazing.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: I will put this picture on the website.
[00:50:48] Speaker A: Oh, yes, that's great. So we do have a caller, I think.
Color, you're on the air. Hello.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: I. I think I'm a. A bit of a contrarian here. I picture the dinosaurs not seeing the.
[00:51:07] Speaker C: Meteor approaching, and we can see the.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Meteor approaching, and it seems to me like you are ignoring it.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you for bringing that up. I love contrarians, by the way.
Let's. Let's talk about this because I'm gonna hang up and listen to you discuss.
[00:51:32] Speaker A: What I just said.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: Sure. Thank you. So, no, I. I don't know that anybody knows, right? I don't think anybody knows. And so we have a choice.
Okay. Maybe we only have another year on this planet before we get blown to smithereens.
I don't think that. I pray that's not the case. And I don't want to live in that way. But while I'm here, I better use my time really, really well.
And I really am here to. And, and science has proven that we do create a reality.
And so that's the science that I have been. And I respect everybody for their. For their beliefs and how they, you know, and how they perceive the world and what have you.
I, I just don't feel that way. I do feel that we. We have a chance to turn this ship around and. Yes, no, let's. By the way, does that not call her. Does that not help us get into some gratitude to know that we are still spinning on our axis right now?
You know, we're. We're just spinning through the universe. 400, 000 miles an hour around the sun. That's, you know, we're just trying to keep up with. Right. And we are here.
And so let's be in that gratitude that we are here right now.
And all I can do is be here now and be as impeccable and clean and clear because I believe I contribute to the greater whole. As do you. As do you, Florina, as to every soul on this planet.
So what can we do with the time we have here and. Yeah, let's live our life like we don't have a whole lot more time. And let's see how grateful and kind we are with one another and how we start living into our soul's purpose.
Right. What a shame to be blown up before you get a chance to live into your soul's purpose. I'm sorry to go There. But I appreciate. I love that you asked that question. Color. Thank you.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: I think, you know, and caller, you know, you're not alone. This is really something that I think we all have to wrestle with. And that's a good wrestling, I really think. And nobody's gonna have an answer here. I don't think that's what we want to do.
For me, it's just like a very conscious decision. What do I want to feed?
Not just in myself, but into this global consciousness. What am I feeding?
What's the message I'm feeding? What's the reality I'm feeding. And I'm definitely not, you know, I'm still gonna. I'm. I'm still informed about the news. I still know the suffering that's going on and that on purpose.
I also look at the beautiful stuff. This is how I came across this book and I came across Andy. And, you know, I. I need that. That feeding the good.
So thank you so much, Color. This is. Yeah. Very good discussion.
So, yeah, that's. Those synchronicities, to pay attention to them. It's. It's very rich. And then you have another skill. Oh, yeah. Okay, here we go. Meeting the maiden mother and crone.
[00:54:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good for me to anchor in a personality type archetype.
And this is based on, you know, I use the maiden mother crone as three very generalized archetypes, archetypal figures. Right. With certain personality traits because they're easy to identify, especially if you're a woman, that you don't have to identify as a woman to understand this. So.
But. But being able to sort of. Of put a.
A frame around kind of where you're at right now in your life or in your belief system or maybe your personality.
Right. And. And my personality is definitely a maiden. I'm creative. I can be playful.
I'm, you know, I. I'm. I can be disruptive.
Right. As the child and the mother is nurturing and. And.
And responsive and.
And synthesizing and a real embodiment of the divine feminine, if you ask me. And then the crone is wisdom. It's a culmination of life through those two other archetypes. But any one of these, you can be at all one time. But there's usually a dominant archetypal condition there. And I tend to really waver between child and mother, mostly mother, largely because I'm a leader in a women's organization. I've kind of developed this personality. And by the way, our personality is not who we are. Our personality is how we walk in the world. So we also have agency over that. But if I'm driving down the road and somebody just speeds right by me and cuts me off and I have a choice, am I going to be the disruptor and chase right after them and get a little road rage going on, or am I going to be the mother or. And the actually crone and go, oh, they, you know, maybe, you know, they. They've got to get to the emergency room or. Or they're. They need to get there faster than I do, and I hope they're safe. So really being able to stop and go, okay, where am I. Where am I performing from right now? Where am I behaving from right now? It's really good to kind of get your arms around your archetypal identity, and you can just Google your archetypal identity and see that there's. There's endless, you know, graphs of all different types of archetypes.
But I like to focus on those.
And just because they're easy and good baselines.
[00:57:22] Speaker A: Again, it helps you to be mindful of where you want to come from.
[00:57:27] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:57:27] Speaker A: Yeah. It's rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:57:29] Speaker B: And a choice. I have a choice. How am I going to respond right now?
You know, I'm my own accountability partner.
All right, Sandy, you gonna be the crone here or what? You know, you'll be the disruptor.
[00:57:40] Speaker A: You mean you can't.
You mean we can't blame anybody else.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: Oh, as much as we want to. How easy would that be?
[00:57:50] Speaker A: Yeah, but how. Not very powerful either. So. Yeah, and then you have the impeccability and grace as a skill set.
Can you tell more?
[00:58:02] Speaker B: So I love this.
This word, abracadabra.
Abracadabra means.
It's Aramaic.
That means I create with my words.
So that's what.
[00:58:18] Speaker A: I was so surprised when I read this in the book. I'm like, wow, this is so cool.
[00:58:23] Speaker B: I know. I Learned this from Dr. Terza Firestone in a workshop I was doing on intergenerational trauma.
And, yeah, healing intergenerational trauma, which is another skill.
And.
And I was. It changed everything for me. Yes, we do create with our words, and. And our words are informed by our thoughts, so how could we be impeccable? There's some really good practices here to being impeccable with our words, to really, really mean what we're saying.
Be really clear. Here comes questioning assumptions why I'm thinking this, and do I really think this way? And should I say this because communication energy here when I speak right and what am I putting out into the world? What am I contributing to the world right now?
And is it going to heal or hurt?
And, and if it's going to hurt, why is that important to me when what's all that about?
Right? And how am I going to feel after I those words come out of my mouth?
And so besides the four agreements of keeping our words impeccable, and as one of the four by Don Miguel Ruiz, keeping our words impeccable, the the concept of simple words being removed from our language, such as the word just J u s t Try going a day without using that word. I'm just calling. I just love you. I just want my voice to be heard. What happens when you remove that word?
I notice I'm becoming more impeccable with my words. When I type emails or I'm typing anything and I type a lot or write, of course, because I can go in and delete and see what happens when you delete that word. It's a real good practice. It really is. And that builds awareness. It starts showing up in other places.
So that's one of those capacity building practices that's super easy.
And then you start catching yourself, you know, am I really gonna. Does it really help to tell this white lie?
Is it really helping anybody?
So that, that secondary. You'll start seeing that come up out, you know, out of the floorboards and so it'll show up for everybody in a little bit different way. But try that practice. It's really fascinating how it transforms.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: I love that. You know, I'm just thinking right now also about social media because.
Because there's so much damage be done through social media between the youth, but also between adults.
And if we could add that impeccability in our words in like. And again, we have. If you type something, you can look at it again. If you already said it, it's a little bit harder.
But if you're texting, read it again before you push that send button. Right.
Is this really what I want to throw out there in the world?
Is this really benefiting myself or anybody else? I love that practice. And I have, I have never done it with the chest. I, I will practice this. This makes a lot of sense to me.
I have done it with the word but.
[01:01:47] Speaker B: Oh, with that too. Right.
[01:01:49] Speaker A: It's lovely what it does. Replacing but with and. It's just wonderful practice. Yeah.
[01:01:55] Speaker B: Or yet and. Or yet and.
[01:01:57] Speaker A: Or yet.
[01:01:59] Speaker B: Right? Yeah.
It's such a lovely word anyway, how it rolls off the tongue. But it definitely, it's it says that pretty much the same thing. But you're not discounting I love you, but.
[01:02:10] Speaker A: And you're creating again, you create more space. There is. There is multiple realities True. At the same time. That's totally possible.
[01:02:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. There's an occasion for adjust. And especially if you're using the word, you know, mean it to, you know, I want to just. Society, of course, that there are conditions, but 99.9 of the time, you know, you're discounting yourself. You're shrinking a little when you use the word just.
[01:02:36] Speaker A: It's definitely a word I do use a lot. Yeah, I'm gonna practice with that. Love it.
All right, so I am talking with Sandy Hart, the author of the Liminal Odyssey, and you're listening to Mindful Mud on kmud, and we're talking about skill sets for this odyssey that we're in. I think we have another caller. All right, call. Are you on the air?
I'm.
[01:03:04] Speaker C: I'm coming back to say that listening to you talking about words.
[01:03:12] Speaker A: It came.
[01:03:12] Speaker C: To me, you know, a couple years ago that words either imprison us or set us free.
So which ones do we want to use?
[01:03:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really beautiful. Yeah.
[01:03:31] Speaker C: It's again, connecting to.
[01:03:36] Speaker A: What'S.
[01:03:38] Speaker C: What's happening to me or for me.
So thank you. Oh, this is the. This is the most beautiful conversation I have ever heard.
[01:03:50] Speaker B: I can't wait for you to start doing these practices. And then. That was lovely. Thank you so much. And I said, and you may not have heard it, I can't wait for you to start these practices. So you start saying, having that same revelation about your own conversations.
Yeah, that was lovely.
[01:04:10] Speaker A: Yes.
And then this is one of my. I think this next skill here is incredibly important as well as everything is, like, encouraging each other. Right. I mean, everything is interwoven here. But still, I think I'd love to mention the Trust Frequency.
Oh, yes.
[01:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
The Trust Frequency is a. Actually the name of a book by Connie Baxter Marlowe and Andrew Cameron Bailey. They're very dear friends of mine, and they wrote this book a while a long time ago.
And the. The premise of the book is that we live in a loving, abundant universe, so the universe is always conspiring for our greatest good.
And they have some beautiful practices in. In their book as well. And trust is really the bonding agent for all these other skills.
It really is a powerful, cohesive tool to have, because if you can remember, be timeful, listen in, and remember that you are supported and things like our last caller said, you know, happen for us, then it removes us from fear.
It removes us from that, that place of scarcity and moves us into abundance and creative thinking so we can find new solutions to old problems, so we can know that we're just fine where we are.
So, yeah, trust is really, really a powerful, A powerful tool.
[01:06:09] Speaker A: Yeah. For me it's, you know, as a healer and meditation teacher, trust is, is another wonderful thing to, to cultivate. It's often not just given, but we can learn it.
And for me, again, it's listening. If I listen into really what's going on, not just what my head tells me, the fear, the repetitive thoughts, the negativity, then I can see trust everywhere.
And if we don't trust, it's that stagnation. When we think about the body or when you think about energy, it's a stagnation. And if we trust, for me that that's that flow where everything flows. And like in my body, my own energy flows, everything around me flows and I can heal myself and, you know, it's a healing energy for me.
[01:07:08] Speaker B: Yes.
Ray Singer, I believe his name is Ray Singer.
[01:07:13] Speaker A: Yikes.
[01:07:14] Speaker B: Anyway, this beautiful author, this, he painted this beautiful description of, you know, when we go through these processes of healing or like removing rocks from the riverbed so the river can flow, trust is like a safety net for us that we can take those rocks and boulders, whatever they are, and just hand them over, you know, it to perhaps your, your religion tells, you know, has taught you you can just hand it over to God.
It's the same thing. You're just trusting. The universe is conspiring and it's going to continue to spin. I trust this universe is going to continue to spin us on our access. I really do.
And I, that's where I choose my energy. But that, but trust is really a powerful tool.
[01:08:07] Speaker A: It's huge.
It's huge. Thank you.
[01:08:10] Speaker B: It requires acceptance.
Right. Remember, again, the abundance. Questioning assumptions, checking your attitude.
And there's a whole, there's a whole methodology with, in that chapter itself.
But it's as simple as that, really.
Yeah, that's what I remember.
When things feel disparaging for me. Right. Just wonder what's going to happen next.
Like, okay, just trust, it'll be okay.
I mean, I'm 61, I got this far and I'm here and miraculous things have happened for me. I made it and I didn't trust. I really muddled through. What happens if I take, you know, hand it over a little bit here?
[01:08:57] Speaker A: It creates that openness and also that realization we don't have to do that all alone. Who came up with that stuff?
[01:09:04] Speaker B: Patriarchy.
[01:09:06] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:09:07] Speaker B: So we trust the, you know, somebody.
[01:09:10] Speaker A: Somebody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or something else. Yeah, there's power in that for sure.
And then the integrational healing awareness.
[01:09:22] Speaker B: Oh, intergenerational inter.
[01:09:24] Speaker A: Sorry. Yeah.
[01:09:25] Speaker B: No, no, no, I'm so. This is, this is really, really. Yeah, they're all like picking my favorite child.
This is an essential element.
I cannot, you cannot, you know, you cannot extract this outside of this petri dish here of tools and skills because we all come with a certain baggage.
We all come. And some of that baggage are heirlooms and things that are valuable and have informed us and made us again, made up our beautiful parts.
And others are behavior patterns that do not serve us.
And so a simple practice is to look at certain behavior patterns. Do you, you know, you click on the wit on your wick. Do you, you know, fly up the handle really quickly like I used to do? Well, my father, that was his conditioning by his father.
And so even though I.
Oh, just this, it was just so difficult to grow up in that household.
I caught myself doing the same thing, thinking, well, that's just my personality. There's the word chest.
That's my personality.
Right.
No, I can look back and go, okay, what created that behavior pattern in my father? And where did that come from? In my. Oh, okay, that makes sense. My grandfather's upbringing. Right.
So not only does it help me with forgiveness of my father, because I can really see that he didn't have the capacity, the skills, the tools, the knowledge to navigate around this. There wasn't the science, of course, and yet this is all he knew. I can forgive him for that because it was woven into who he was.
And yet I can unweave it in me. I can unravel that, that, that tight thread in me. And I think about what my father would want.
What would my father want?
Would he hope that I carried on that legacy of having a being hot headed?
You know, would he help that I'd find a, you know, a skill or a tool and if he had known about, he might have take. He would have done and not as die, not have died as early as he did because he had a heart condition caused by all the stress.
[01:11:45] Speaker A: Stress.
[01:11:46] Speaker B: Right. So but you can also look at patterns of your family like divorce or suicide or all kinds of patterns that are. You can do like a family tree, but it's actually not the same kind of family tree we may think of. It's like look at kind of conditions that existed through our family lineage and then say, okay, what do I need to heal in myself? And yes, I can see it. And this is where the buck stops. The family tree stops right here.
[01:12:16] Speaker A: And I think because this is such.
This can be very hard work or very intense stuff to deal with. I think for me at least, it's really important we have a certain gentleness and forgiveness for ourselves, that we really use all these previous tools, that we have these tools of.
That we can deal with this in a. In a good way and not beat ourselves up or beat anybody else up, but just loosen the knot with just more awareness and more kindness to ourselves and our ancestors, too, to really release that stuff.
[01:12:53] Speaker B: I think that's what our ancestors are praying for.
They're growling for us, you know, come on, girl, you got that?
[01:13:02] Speaker A: And I think think doing that work also helps our future as a. As a humanity. Right. I mean, that's where the stuff comes from.
[01:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And even if you don't have grandchildren like I do, they're watching, children are watching you.
You can be a model for someone else's child or a stranger that you pass by in the supermarket. I remember kindness from strangers, you know, holding my mom's hand.
So, yeah, it really does make a difference, and it truly is a great gift you can give your soul and your ancestors as well. Yeah. It's really necessary, I think, to prepare us again for where we're going. We don't know where we're going, but I don't want to take any baggage along with me.
Right. It's. It's really necessary that I heal that now.
Yeah.
[01:13:54] Speaker A: Thank you, Sandy. Well, so we have three more, so skill sets. I wanted to talk about a couple other things, but we are already starting to run out of time. It's kind of.
It's kind of what I thought is going to happen again.
[01:14:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much.
[01:14:08] Speaker A: It's just wonderful. But we do have that, you know, we talked a little bit about. So one more skill set is called mind over matter. Right.
To the power of you. We've talked a little bit about this. Do you want to mention anything?
[01:14:24] Speaker B: Well, actually, check out everything Florina is doing on mindfulness. How. Yeah, I. I think you are a remarkable teacher and educator. And.
Yeah, I would. Thank you.
Being aware of mindfulness and our power of our thoughts. And I have a phenomenal story, a real story, one story after another in this one chapter, actually, about this one experience I had over the course of five days. Wow. One miracle after another.
I attribute to that mindfulness, right?
[01:15:01] Speaker A: You know, Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know, for all your listeners, you know, if you're captivated, hopefully you are. Get the book and you will get all the juicy stuff right there. The Liminal Odyssey.
And then there's another tool fulfilling our planetary assignment with courage.
[01:15:22] Speaker B: That's it. All of this culminates into discovering what your planetary assignment is.
Where do your passions meet the needs of the world? Therein lies your calling. That's Aristotle. This concept's been around for a while, right? And Plato and Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell, you know, they're all leading us to that great discovery and disclosure of our planetary assignment. And if you don't know what your planetary assignment is, you can ask yourself where your passions meet the needs in the world show up in that. We all have a planetary assignment. As a matter of fact, I believe we have multiple planetary assignments. I have a guidebook that is published, and I'm waiting for it to. To arrive at my door by February 1st or 2nd. And it's the Alchemy. Well, the. The sub subtitle is the alchemical experience.
An alchemical experience for discovery and revelation of your soul's sacred tasks.
All right, so we have multiple tasks. It's called your Liminal Odyssey. And so really discovering what that is, sometimes all it takes is asking the question.
If you don't know what it is, but remain in that question, why is one of my favorite words that comes with question mark.
Why what? Or what is it? Why don't I know what it is? And what is it?
All right, so if you don't know what your planetary assignment is, now that you've asked and be very clear, there's some, you know, wrapped into another chapter that we've already spoken about is the importance of being impeccable with our words because. And our thoughts, because it's also a request to the universe or to God.
God or the how? Your spirit, however, your angels, because you have to be really clear, because they're waiting for direction. They're just sitting around waiting. It's, well, why haven't you delivered all these things I want? Well, you haven't asked me yet. You have to get really clear with. And be careful what you ask for because you'll get it well.
[01:17:28] Speaker A: And also, I think often when we get or we receive, and because it's a little different than what we thought we want to get or what might. What we think is good for us or for our path is not really. What is it? Right.
So being open to what Shows up, I think is for me really the big thing, too. Yes. Ask and then be open. It can be something that's completely different than what you thought. Can you be. Can we be open?
[01:17:59] Speaker B: Prepare to be surprised.
[01:18:01] Speaker A: Yes, always.
Wow.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And then, you know, back to that seed, right? Being that sacred gardener. It's kind of the culmination of it all.
[01:18:16] Speaker B: Being the sacred gardener.
Yeah, absolutely. We have that great responsibility to be the sacred gardener of the sea seed that is in each one of us.
And the seed that is our civilization.
Because we are moving into a new epoch. We are. We are growing into the divine feminine right now. This is prophesied by all the indigenous elders. It's. Science is saying, you know, we are moving into the next quantum revolution. Revolution. Which, you know. So it's science, it's prophecy. And I got a really good feeling about it, too. And for what that's worth.
[01:18:53] Speaker A: Well, and it feels like this. If we look around, things are crumbling and that can be scary. It is scary in a way, when things are just in the process of change. It's.
I am well.
[01:19:07] Speaker B: And I have to say, you know, I'm chipper and I'm enthusiastic and I'm passionate.
I. I really am sensitive to that despair.
I really am. And I feel it myself sometimes.
I think you have to feel all the feels.
Right. I really do. That's what they're there for. It's what we were entrusted with in our body. That's what our nervous system is about to keep us safe. Right. So these are. Fear is really a sign that danger is coming. But we also have to be careful because fear can be seen. Slippery fear can be cloaked in all kinds of garments to keep us in fear. So remember, we have that agency.
[01:19:52] Speaker A: I just. Yes, I just. It's like I just read this quote by Adi Ashanti. I'm not sure if I can come up with it, but something like, it's important to be okay with not being okay, so we can really be okay.
It's not that anybody needs to deny that it's difficult. Right. Or that there is the despair.
It's not about denying anything, however. But it's not about being eaten up by it. By seeing the whole big picture.
And then everything has space and then it goes wherever it's going to go anyway.
We're so funny as humans. Sometimes we really think we have it all under control, don't we?
[01:20:41] Speaker B: Exactly. That's what we have to give up. The fact that we are. Yeah, we don't belong the Earth doesn't belong to us. We belong to the Earth.
[01:20:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And so I'm super excited. Quickly talk about that. That new, that new book that comes out, the guidance book or the workbook or how do you call it?
[01:20:59] Speaker B: It's a guidebook. The Liminal A Practical Guide into Alchemizing the Spaces in Between.
It's a step by step guide that is multifaceted. Right. Take all of these skills and you have multiple ways of processing throughout each. I don't call them chapters, but sections, if you will. Yeah, there's. There's a. They're all recommended as well. So there's rituals, there's daily practices. A couple that we talked about here and some on others as well. There's scribing, which some would call journaling. I call it scribing because you truly are scribing your heart's wisdom, your soul's wisdom.
So there, there's many different, you know, practices within each skill set. And you're encouraged to go get yourself in big blank notebook as well, because I couldn't make this too thick with too many extra pages. There's some other surprises in there. There's a. There's. I. I really try to hit all the senses so you can really grok this and process it in a way. Some like the idea and this is why I did it. Some, it's a num.
Two or three more people than I expected said it'd be great to have a guidebook to go along with every chapter.
Like, okay, so you, if you just. If you just pick this up without the.
Having read the Liminal Odyssey, it would make sense to you.
I recommend doing it either after or with the book.
And.
And then there's another element, and that is the audiobook is produced. It's on audible and on itunes.
And I reached out to a friend, Jerry Little John, and asked her for one of her flute songs that I can use throughout the course of the audiobook. And she asked me to send her her book to capture the energy.
She wrote me back after reading the book and said, I'm just going to have to record an entire album for you.
[01:23:06] Speaker A: How fantastic. So that album is out.
[01:23:10] Speaker B: She's actually producing it right now, working on the COVID coming up with the title. I know it's got Liminal Odyssey in it, and so hopefully that will be done in the next few weeks and you can actually listen to the music while processing the journaling. So it's very multi dimensional. There's symbols that represent different energies. So the re. So you the user or the.
In other words, I say not the user. Let this book use. You don't use this book. But you, the participant in this odyssey of yours, of your own soul, are supported on every page by that energy. So, yeah, we, I, I just. It's all in there.
[01:23:50] Speaker A: Wow. It keeps. The book is keeper. Keeps writing and creating itself.
[01:23:55] Speaker B: I know, I know. I think I need a break. It's been. In two years, I've done all of this right. I didn't have a choice. It's been blissful.
[01:24:03] Speaker A: Thank you, Sandy, so much for this wonderful conversation.
It sure is all in there in that book.
Listener. If you got inspired, you can find this
[email protected] that's liminal odyssey.com or simply through sandyheart.com and you find more information there.
Thank you, Julian, for engineering. And if you like to get more info about what I'm offering you, find
[email protected].
all right, that's F L U R I N a n I G-G-L-I.com.
[01:24:46] Speaker B: This has been a KMUT podcast to listen to other shows and more episodes of this show. Find us on all the platforms where you get your podcast and also on our website, kmud.org.
