Mindfulness in Schools with Andrew Jordan Nance

[00:00:02] Speaker A: HeyMud podcast presents welcome to Mindful Mud. I'm Fluina Niggli. I'm your host. I'm a Zen teacher and mindfulness instructor. Mindful Mud is your show here on KMUD about all kinds of mindfulness and I normally have different guests on and we talk talk about different mindfulness topics and ways to implement it in our lives. My guest for today is Andrew Jordanance. He joined here on Zoom. And Andrew Jordanance is the founder and lead trainer for Mindful Arts San Francisco. Additionally, he offers trainings in assemblies around the globe for libraries, schools and school districts to provide the principles of mindfulness to students and staff. His mindfulness training comes from Mindful Schools, Spirit Rock, Meditation Center, Omega and Esalen. A graduate of New York University Tisch School at the Arts for almost two decades, he was the Conservatory Director of the New Conservatory Theater center, providing educational theater experiences for thousands of Bay Area youth and adults. He is also the author and this is kind of how I got to know him through his books of really popular mindfulness books. And one of my favorite books out there for kids when it comes to mindfulness is Puppy Mind. Love that book. But he also wrote Mindful Arts in the Classroom, the Lion in Me, the Barefoot King, Dolly Dies Deep, another sweet book and a very brand new book, Lazy Susan. A little different chara there with that book. So welcome, Andrew. Welcome. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Hello. Hello. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Yes, Andrew, you are on air. Welcome. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Hello again. [00:02:17] Speaker A: So thankful that you spend a Sunday afternoon here chatting about mindfulness. So, you know, perhaps I kind of would love to get started to see because Mindful Schools, right? And we're both in the Mindful schools teaching mindfulness. And I'm kind of very curious right now just to hear about your art project you're doing down in San Francisco, because that's new. And then from there we can, we can go into your books and mindfulness in schools. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Sure. So about, about 11 years ago, I started teaching in the schools using Mindful Schools curriculum. And for those of you who don't know, Mindful Schools was an online resource for many, many years. Basically there was some in person opportunities as well, but they were, they were like the originators of online training for mindfulness. And fortunately they just disbanded I think within the last year. But they were just phenomenal. I learned so much from them. But I was in the schools teaching mindfulness and I used their curriculum for the whole year and I was going in twice a week that first year because I think that was what they encouraged us to do back then. And I kind of Ran out of curriculum. So I started playing theater games and improvs, and I realized that the kids really liked it and that there was a similarity between theater training and mindfulness training. If anyone's ever been on stage, even if you're not acting, if you're dancing or you're playing an instrument or even in sports, you know, you get into this flow state and you aren't thinking about the past or the future. You're, especially as an actor, you're trying to connect emotionally to the given circumstances, and you're trying to really listen and be there for your partners on stage. And that's really life, right? We want to connect emotionally with each other. We want to really be present for each other. We want to check in with our emotional states so we can see how we're doing, so we can really be skillful. And that's mindfulness in my estimation. The thing about theater and mindfulness, where I feel they diverge is we want to be a little reactive, right? Like, if you were an eye or in a scene together on stage, we wanted to kind of go somewhere juicy, right? Like you throw something at me, maybe I walk out, you know, maybe I say something terrible that I regret, and in the next scene I come back and apologize and, you know, whatever. But with mindfulness, we don't want to have those highs and lows that you want in a theater piece. So at any rate, I started playing these mindful games with the kids, these theater games with the kids. And that summer I started writing quite a bit. I brought in. I brought in stories to the kids before the summer started that I had written. And then I started piecing together this curriculum using the lessons that I had already put together. And then I expanded upon those lessons kind of using mindful schools format. They would talk about kindness and gratitude. And so I would think, all right, how do I want to teach kindness? Stories are out there in the world that are about kindness. So some of my stories in one of my books, the curriculum, have stories from Africa and from Native American cultures and Indian cultures and Chinese cultures. So. And then. And then there's stories of my own that I've written as well. [00:06:27] Speaker A: So are you talking about the book that you wrote? What is it called? The Mindful Arts in the Classroom? [00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah, so it's a 300 page curriculum. And all the stories are mine in a sense, because I found the thread of the story online. And then I flesh them out and I turn them all into rhyming stories. So they're basically, you know, a Riff off. Many of them are riffs off of existing ideas, but they're my own original work at the same time. So it's a 300 page curriculum. So that next year I started teaching that curriculum. And then I started having volunteers come in. And just by chance, they heard about it, they wanted to check it out. So they would come in and be my teaching assistants. And then fast forward a year or two later they started going into their own classrooms. And then they had friends that heard about it. And then we started advertising online because we were a little, you know, hesitant. You know, I. I didn't feel like I was really an expert. I felt like I had some tools that I could share, but I didn't feel like I was an expert at that time. So I really didn't want to kind of steamroll through this. I wanted to be really mindful and conscientious about how we rolled this program out. So it was very organic. We didn't feel like we were forcing it. We would just get these calls from people who were curious. And then, you know, one thing led to another. And now, you know, all these years later, we have a paid program coordinator coordinator named Selena Baldassan. And she places our 40 volunteers all over San Francisco in various elementary schools, all public. And we have volunteers come back year after year. They say it's the best part of their week and the kids love it. Mostly, you know, there's always going to be outliers, as you know, as you well know, I'm sure. And it's just a. It's just a great gift that I give to myself every week because certainly, as you know, when you walk into a classroom, you really don't know what you're going to expect. So just to have that ability to be the calm and the storm is such a really wonderful opportunity to give to those kids how to be really present with all the. The tumult that's in the classroom upon arrival. So, yeah, it's a really amazing program. I'm really proud of it. We have it in different parts of the country now. You know, just in small moments, people buy the book and they think, I'm going to try this in my school. So it's being done at a Montessori school in New Jersey and up in Placerville, California, there's talk of maybe having a small program in Hawaii and then down in LA and on and on. So it's really cool that it's just kind of morphing. And even just last week I did an online Class with some kids in London. So they learned all about their puppy minds and how to keep them from wandering off as they do. [00:09:58] Speaker A: Yeah. How excellent. That's wonderful. So 40. 40 different schools. Yeah, 40 different volunteers. How amazing is that? [00:10:09] Speaker B: Isn't that great? And all I do is train them. They have to have a mindfulness background, but they get placed by Selena and they usually can go to a school near their home or their office. So it's really this wonderful opportunity to give back. And some of these folks that are working these days are working from home, so they can afford to take a long lunch break and teach for 20, 25 minutes, sometimes an hour, if we give them two classes back to back. And a lot of our volunteers are young and diverse and from all over the world. And it's pretty co. Every time I do the training, you know, all the little faces populate up on the screen and we usually have, you know, 15 to 20 people. They don't all wind up volunteering because it's a big ask to go into a classroom and manage all the kids. However the teacher is there helping our volunteer out. It's still, it's a big ask. So we don't always get every volunteer who shows up at the training in a classroom, but usually we do. So it's. It's a pretty good success rate. [00:11:30] Speaker A: That's incredible. It just. I have a lot of questions here. So how do you like, do you have like a list of schools that you then. Or how does that work? Are the schools kind of contacting you guys or. [00:11:41] Speaker B: It's a little bit of both. We say that we have volunteers interested. There's some priority schools in San Francisco that we really want to try to help in, you know, in low income housing areas. We really want to lift those kids up and give them all the tools they can. My philosophy is really that kids cannot learn if they're not feeling safe. And there's a lot of reasons why kids don't feel safe these days. So if we can just get them out of fight, flight or freeze. Learn to take those deep breaths, wiggle their toes, smile, connect with each other, connect with the moment. They're really able to think much more clearly than they could just a few moments earlier. So. So it's. [00:12:34] Speaker A: And that includes the teachers sometimes, right? I mean, I hear this so often when I enter a classroom. They were the teachers, like, I need you today, you know, or like. Or we were just waiting for you. That kind of stuff, like, they really look forward to. Okay, we get a mindful Moment here. [00:12:52] Speaker B: They are so excited to see me. I mean, I walk down the hall and I can't tell you how many times a day some kid says, are we here having you today? And I'm like, usually it's not for whatever reason. It's usually no, that was last week or whatever. But I do see every kid every week. But you know, they don't really know what day it is. It's so cute. They can't figure out what Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is. But so, yeah, so they're so excited most of the time. And you're right, we just don't allow for the pause in our lives. You know, I tend to be very busy as well and I forget to take those breaths throughout the day. So it's such a good lesson for me, you know, every half hour to be leading a mindful minute with the kids and the kids actually I'm guessing you probably do this too, but the kids lead the meditation with my help. And so it's really sweet to see, see them take ownership of that experience for their, their class. [00:14:00] Speaker A: That's incredible. So you're, you're basically training your. And assuming here masking you're training your volunteers according to your curriculum you wrote. [00:14:11] Speaker B: That's right, correct. Yeah. So they have a mindfulness background. We can't just take anyone who's curious. It just is not a good idea. So they have a mindfulness background. If we feel like they're too green, we'll pair them up with another volunteer who may be more seasoned or more confident and then they can kind of self select whether they want to have their own class. You know, maybe four classes in or a semester in they might have their own class. So, so yeah, so then I train them and it's, I have to say it's not a long, long training. We get through 10 lessons and we do it in about two hours. So it's really fast. But what I have done is I have a YouTube channel and I've recorded me talking more in depth about each lesson up to lesson they can watch that YouTube video which is, you know, like six minutes long before they go into class every week for the first 10 weeks. And so that's a nice little resource for them as well. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, I bet you that's really, really helpful to, to. I realize like for me I started just like you said. Like, I think it was like 13 years for me now that I've been going to schools in, it's like at the beginning, I, I don't know for me, at least. Right. I very much used the kind of the mindful schools curriculum since we went, you know, through similar trainings here. And then more and more I made it my own. Right. And I, I, you probably see this as volunteers. I, I could imagine. Right? [00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I always say to them, you know, this is not some bible sent on high. This is just something to get you into that classroom and give them some sort of practice. A lot of my teachers have a huge yoga background, so, so they're moving around. They are doing all sorts of cool stuff that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing. They're bringing in art projects and, you know, it's really cool. They totally make them make it their own. And I encourage that wholeheartedly. So. Yeah. [00:16:30] Speaker A: So why did you, why are you calling it mindful arts curriculum? [00:16:35] Speaker B: Right. Well, because, because of my theater arts background. There's drawing activities, there's art activity, there's acting activities. So, you know, just sort of in encompassing the arts. Yeah, that's why I see. So, yeah. So they might like draw their own puppy mind, you know, where does their puppy mind like to take them? You know, to the be beach, to Disneyland, to Chuck E. Cheese, you know, or what is, what is their angry lion get mad about? You know, because I have a book about the lion inside of us, the lion in me, it's called. And I'll say, what do you get mad about? You know, so they might draw what makes them mad, you know, when their sister takes their toy or you know, when they, when they don't get called in class or something like that. So, so yeah, so there's that and then there's, there's like, you know, connect the dot activities. And there's a maze and there's a butterfly, there's a rainbow. So lots of things to just to draw. It's mostly drawing. And then performing arts is, I would say the two art forms that we really. And then also reading, which is, I think, you know, literary arts. [00:17:55] Speaker A: And so your lessons, are they like a half an hour or how long are they? [00:17:59] Speaker B: They're about a half an hour and we start with a meditation and then get into the concept of like, let's say it's about the puppy mind or about kindness. And then I might read a story or we might play a game and then I can, you know, just kind of go circle back to the story and say, do you see how, how easy it, how, how, how easy it is to bring the, the mind back with the breath? It doesn't, it doesn't keep us there because, you know, the mind likes to wander. But if we keep practicing, it gets easier and easier to keep the mind in the present. And it just. Just takes practice. And I always say, practice makes progress. And the kids are always like, wait, no, I thought it meant. I thought practice meant perfect. I said, no, it's really hard to be perfect as a human being. So they get a kick out. [00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah. How wonderful. What, What a. What a gift. What a gift for these schools. And. And really that. That caring for underserved communities. Because. And this is another reason why I started to really go into schools, because we can reach everybody. If I do private trainings, then I often have folks who. Only the folks who can't afford it, who might not really be the ones it. Right. And going into schools, we can reach everybody. And it's just so, for me, so satisfying. It's just so wonderful. [00:19:32] Speaker B: And I bet you see this, too. I. Maybe you have a story, but I have lots of stories where kids will say, oh, my mom was getting really upset, and I. I told her to take three deep breaths and. Or my little sister was upset. And. And, you know, so I love that they're bringing these ideas home because, you know, it. It takes a. It takes a commitment from the family structure to really change intergenerational challenges. [00:20:06] Speaker A: It's true. You know, where we live, it's such a small community, so. And for me, being here teaching in the schools and reaching pretty much all the kids around from, you know, Pre K to 12 almost, it's like, you know, I literally see parents, like, telling me, oh, my goodness, My. My. My daughter just told me yesterday, I need to come see you. I need to come and learn some mindfulness from you. Oh, my goodness. You know, I hear stuff like that a lot. [00:20:34] Speaker B: That's fantastic. You must, You. It must be hard for you to walk around town without running into kids. You know, it's not. [00:20:41] Speaker A: It's. It's. I love what happens, you know. Oh, Miss Mindfulness. I'm like, yeah. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Is that what they call you, Ms. Mindfulness? [00:20:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So some of them who forget my name, for sure. [00:20:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:53] Speaker A: That is wonderful. Anywhere I go, really. Yeah. And then sometimes. What sometimes so surprising is, you know, folks that I even think in the classroom they're not necessarily paying attention or. Or like middle schoolers who have social pressure, who don't want to really show how much they appreciate that. I come in, and then I see them in private on the road. They're like, when are you coming back? We need you so bad. I'm like you, really? And that's just, you know, that keeps me going for sure. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:27] Speaker A: And I do think we have a caller. Are we ready for taking a caller? Excellent. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Why not? Wow. My heart is full of the brilliance of what you're saying. [00:21:43] Speaker A: And. [00:21:46] Speaker B: In addition to that, I have to say, like a roomy poem. [00:21:55] Speaker A: Go for it. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Read the poem. I love that. Everything is within you. Ask all of yourself. That's it. Everything is within us. Ask all of ourselves. And like, that's like. I'm so clear with what you're saying. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. And I actually thought you were going to say the other roomy poem, the guest house. Oh. And it's a great poem and I don't have it memorized, but it's really about, you know, welcoming everything and, and that's one of the things that I think we've really gotten wrong for thousands of years is we just don't welcome the uncomfortable. Oh, there you go. Right. And we have to, we have to be comfortable when frustration arises because there's always that point where you have, you know, you don't know something and you want to learn something. And between those two points is a lot of uncomfortability and a lot of frustration. And we have to be able to, like we said earlier, ride the waves of that so we can get to the other side. And that's what I, I really hope the kids that I work with take away is that they're just. There's just no real negative emotions in my mind. There's just big emotions. They're on, they're uncomfortable emotions. But if we start labeling parts of ourselves that are quote unquote negative, that's a bad spiral to get into. You know, I really think it's important just say, okay, I'm feeling, you know, this big emotion, but let's not let it rule the roost, you know, let's not let it run the show. I can, I can, I can handle this, darling. I do not want children committing suicide. It's so wrong. Sure, yeah, yeah. But, but we don't, we don't give kids the tools. We think, you know, we, we, we. I mean, I, I can tell you just recently I had to, I had to kind of tattle on it on a teacher because she was telling a four year old to stop crying, you know, or I'll call your mother. And this is a little boy. And you know, I don't know how long he had been crying or whatever, but, you know, if we don't allow kids to cry and be with them when they're crying, they're going to shut down and they're going to be the most angry, withdrawn kids you've ever seen. And we've got to just lean in and be curious when our friends and our family have big emotions. Not just like, oh, well, you know, at least you have this. Or you know, and, and a lot of teachers use this awful expression, you know, is this a big problem or a little problem? And to a four year old, a ball that someone just took from you is a really big problem. And we can't minimize that, you know, so, you know, I think it behooves all of us to just get on that road of getting curious about our own emotions so that we can help other people get curious about theirs. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Thank you, Jordan. Yeah, thank you, Andrew. And thanks caller. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a lot of stuff for me. Thank you for that. KMUD is a community radio station in the Redwood region of Northern California. Donate to Support People Powered radio@kansas mud.org. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Yeah, we were just talking about emotions and I really appreciate you bringing this up because I do think when we bring mindfulness into the classroom, we come from a different perspective, right? We don't come from that disciplinary and urgency kind of energy, right. Of like I have to like for, for a lot of educators these days, I mean, it's just stressful. There's so much they have to, you know, and there's just the demands are huge and for us, you know, as outside providers coming in and being able to like really have the kind of regulated nervous system that we bring with us, hopefully more or less, right? And then have a different approach to discipline. Like let's say a kid is acting out, moving towards that, including that in the session, asking questions, getting curious about, hey, what's up with you? You know, instead of, I mean, teachers, you know, often they're just gonna have to manage somehow, right? And that's just for me, such a valuable thing to do. And you know, I just remember this, this last chunk. I started again after not seeing the kids for a year. I normally, my first lesson I come in and ask them, what do you remember from last year? And, and there were a couple kids and especially, no, I think it was a girl and then another boy who are like, you know, I remember that all emotions are okay. I'm like, thank you. Like, and she's like, and it's okay to be, it's, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to Be angry. And I learn how to be with it. I'm like, oh my goodness. You know, I mean that as a, you know, third, fourth grader, if you have that. And that's just, that's just wonderful. Right. And, and, and I think, you know, that kind of stuff gets me going for sure. And, and makes me feel like it's such a valuable tool that, that we bring in there. Yeah. And thanks for sharing that. And I love that poem from Romy, the Guest House. It's exactly like that. And again, like how to play with these emotions almost. Right. And, and with theater, perhaps even like. Okay, and now I want to go into your kids books because, because this is really. And I mean, you know, you have two books. The one with. That are working with emotions. The one with the lion about the anger. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Lying in me. And then the other one, Dolly, Dolly dolphin darling Dives deep. You know, and that's also just that anxiety, right? Yeah. Do you want to talk about it? [00:28:42] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, I'd love to. Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting. We were talking about emotions and the lion in me is just that entry point into starting to notice where in the body emotions show up before you're. You have the thought of I'm angry. Right. So in the book, the little boy says it starts in his stomach and then it start, you know, then his shoulders go up and then his fists clench and he gets hot and you know, his mind goes blank. And, and all of us can really kind of relate to that in most ways. And in fact, one of the things that I do with the kids that they love is a game called what are you feeling? And it's basically just a bunch pieces of paper in a baggie. And they reach in and on each piece of paper is an emotion and they act out the emotion in front of the class. And you can do it two ways. But I'll explain it this way. I might say, all right, so you're. Okay, so let's say, let's say that on the piece of paper it's anger or frustration. So their shoulders are up, they're, you know, they're clenching their jaws and everything else. And, and I'll say, do you feel hot or cold? And they'll say, I feel hot. Do you feel tense or relaxed? I feel tense. Do you feel big or little? Usually with anger it's big, which makes a lot of sense sometimes. Sometimes people say little, but most of the time it's big, which makes a lot of sense because you kind of want to feel invulnerable if. If something's really bugging you. And then I do all these other things, like, is your mind busier still? Are you taking deep breaths? Are you taking little breath? And then the audience gets to guess what they're feeling. And it's just such a good little trick to start looking inward in these acting moments, because those emotions are going to show up throughout our day as little sensations in our body. If we can notice those sensations, we can have a little bit more agency on how we navigate. We can still be angry, but we don't have to throw the chair or walk out of the class or shut down completely. We can say, I'm feeling really angry. I'm feeling really tense or whatever. And, you know, we can use our words, which is really hard to do when your prefrontal cortex goes offline. And so that's what I love about the line in me is it really kind of dives into the. The. Our most challenging emotion, which is anger in my. In my estimation. And it gives kids that language and that visual of, you know, oh, that's me. That's. That's what happens to me when I have big feelings. And I do this all the time in my own life. You know, like, if I'm driving and someone, let's say, cuts me off in traffic, you know, I'll feel like my shoulders go up and I'll be like, oh, something's happening. My nervous system's doing something. I'm gonna take some deep breaths. Okay. You know what? Actually, I don't have to get angry, or I can. Or instead of being angry, I can wish that person well, because I don't have any idea why they cut me off in traffic. There's a whole thing about making up a story that they're going to the hospital to see their sick grandmother. But mindfulness is not about becoming a good storyteller in your brain. It's about just, you know, being with what is in the body and then sending kindness out if you can manage it. [00:32:45] Speaker A: I just wanted to say, you know, it's as relevant for adults, for us as well. Right? That. That catching. Knowing. Where does the emotion start before it gets from a. From a tiny little bit of frustration to a complet rage. Right. There is a buildup. And can we catch the. Can we be sensitive with ourselves enough that we catch these physical symptoms that will show up. [00:33:12] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. [00:33:14] Speaker A: And regulate. Where it's still small, like the fire is still small. It's easy to work with. But if it's a raging fire, it's hard to deal with it. [00:33:23] Speaker B: Totally. I mean, it's out of control. We've seen it with forest fires. Yeah. You know, like, be aware of the sensations because sensations lead to thoughts and thoughts lead to actions. So if we can start with the sensation. You're right. You'll be able to, you know, just drive the ship a little bit better because it's so important to feel our feelings. Like you're, like your little friend was saying, but it's just, it's when you have to, you know, come in the next day and say, I'm so sorry about yesterday. You know, I just let. Let the shit, you know, the emotions run the. Run the show. And that's what I love is. I just don't have that as much. I don't have to apologize to my spouse or my, you know, whoever, because I'm not, you know, just exploding when big feelings show up. [00:34:23] Speaker A: It's interesting. Go ahead. [00:34:25] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. [00:34:26] Speaker A: It's interesting because with emotions, what I've been starting to do with adolescents is I showed him the charts of the temperature you brought up temperature. Right. The feeling chart of the. The emotions and temperatures in the body correlation. Because we can measure that. Right. And everybody's a little different. However, anxiety will create a completely different temperature chart than an anger or, you know, or depression or. And, and it really is a very visual thing for kids to see and they're kind of blown away by that. [00:35:04] Speaker B: It's like, whoa, that's fantastic. Wow. [00:35:07] Speaker A: That circulation, that the energy is in my fists when I'm angry. That's trippy. Like, or I am don't have circulation when I'm depressed or my circulation is really, really down. All that kind of things is really kind of a good way to. To really understand. We're not just talking metaphorically here. Is this really what's happening in the body? Right. [00:35:31] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it, you know, mindfulness is kind of a misnomer because it really is about, you know, it's an awareness practice. It's not just checking out what your brain is doing. It's what is your whole organism, your whole awareness doing. And that's where the liberation is for, for most people most of the time. So it's just such a cool science of, of the mind and body in one. And I just, I just think it's invaluable and I, I hope if there's any of your listeners who think this is a bad idea, please investigate for yourself. Rather than kind of, you know, push it to the side off offhand or call us. [00:36:19] Speaker A: And, and I'm kind of curious to hear why somebody would think that mindfulness should not be in the schools. [00:36:26] Speaker B: And I have thankfully being, you know, in San Francisco, which is pretty forward thinking. They, they. I've never had any issues whatsoever. You know, I think any tools that can help kids self regulate is really invaluable. And I always say to the kids, you know, I don't want you to be compliant. I am not in here to raise compliant people. I don't want you to be a compliant adult. I want you to, you know, go out there and change the world and make a difference and, you know, change your lives for the better. But, you know, sometimes I see kids, they walk down the hall like this. I don't know if you ever have that. But sometimes teachers, for whatever reason, they, they have their kids like they're in a straitjacket walking down the hall. Again, I guess it's to keep their hand, you know, safe bodies, safe hands sort of thing. But it looks like they're in straight jackets, you know, like they're on a prison, you know, on a prison ground. And I just think that's, that's not what I'm about. You know, I try to make it fun. Like let's make, let's make little butterfly wings with our hands when we're walking down the hall, you know, but, but let's not look like we're trapped. It's just so interesting that they think, they think they're helping. But you know, when as an adult, are you going to walk down the street, you know, kind of clutching yourself for, you know, an extended period of time, you know, maybe give yourself a hug, but not, not just, I don't know, not feel trapped. It's just, it's just interesting that I think teachers are really desperate for compliance and I think they're missing, Missing the boat. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, my heart goes out to teachers. Right. They are dealing with a lot and also don't necessarily get taught certain others tools that are actually gonna create more compliance. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, disciplinary tools and schools. That's a big topic by itself. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Have you looked into conscious parenting or conscious education? I think that's really an interesting topic to delve into. I'm not an expert in it, but it really seems like it's taking mindfulness tools and it's incorporating them specifically into the classroom. And I think it's a really burgeoning field that I'm really excited about. [00:39:08] Speaker A: Yes. And just all the work that also Dan Siegel has been doing when it comes to. Right. Healthy, healthy language with kids on all different levels. And really, as you brought up, you know, some of the brain, like, really explaining the kids what's happening. And we can do that with kindergarteners. Right. Explaining the kids a little bit. Okay, this is not your fault. When you have a strong emotion, this is what happens. And these are the tools to deal with it. Instead of, as you said, with the boy that's crying, something is wrong. Nothing is wrong. It's just, how are we dealing with it? [00:39:47] Speaker B: And he doesn't have the words at 4 years old to say, you know, I really want to just get a hug from my mom or whatever, you know, And I love, it's so sweet when they say, I miss my mom, you know, and I say, I know, I miss my mom, too, you know, and. And I just validate that that is a really good experience rather than, oh, she'll be here at 3:00'. Clock. Well, if they don't know what if it's Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, they certainly don't know whether it's when three o' clock's coming. So, you know, just to say yes, I totally, I totally understand. Absolutely. [00:40:25] Speaker A: So the validation of the experience, not trying to manipulate it. Right. Is really where mindfulness is about what. [00:40:35] Speaker B: Mindfulness is about not getting, not getting repelled by the big feeling that's coming our way. But to just lean into it and be curious is so valuable. [00:40:50] Speaker A: And. Go ahead. [00:40:52] Speaker B: I was going to say. I was just going to. We mentioned Dolly dives deep about. [00:40:55] Speaker A: I just wanted to ask you to talk about that. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Dolly is so cute. You know, dolphins are my favorite animal. And it's all about a little dolphin who is born in the shallow waters of a beautiful bay. And she hears that the dolphin pod is going to be going to explore new seas, and she's scared of the deep water. So she kind of goes out into the deep water and she's like, oh, my gosh, it's so dark and there's sharks and whales and everything else. And, and her grandmother shows up and kind of, kind of guides her to kind of move through the fear and, and do that body scan we were talking about. She's, you know, the grandmother asked her, where do you feel the fear? Well, I feel it in my fins and my tail and my heart and. And she's like, perfect. Now let's go up to the top and take a deep breath of Air. And so they go up to the surface and they take a deep breath, and she feels better. And, you know, it was also fun to realize as I was writing the book, that dolphins are conscious breathers. You know, they have to go up to the surface and take a breath and reset and then begin again. And that's what mindfulness is, is take going up to the surface, taking that breath, beginning again, so you can be your most skillful and stay safe and still explore the world. [00:42:27] Speaker A: I really, really adore that book because there's so many layers, right? I mean, the dolphin, as you said, with the breath, it's just precious. A way for kids to be like, get to the surface, take a breath, you know? You know, just that idea itself, right? And the other. The other concept of the deep, right? The dark, the unknown, that is really the basis of most of our anxiety also as adults, right? That uncertainty, that not seeing, right. And not knowing what's coming and. And then, you know, that concept also for us adults and then also having that grandma, having that elder, having that guide who has been there before, right? Who can say, let's go explore together. That's basically, for me, a spiritual teacher, right? It's. It's. It's. Or. Or. Or somebody who has just done something already that you haven't done. Like, for me, when I would need to fix a car, I would need to have guidance with a mechanic, right? That would be so. So, yeah, I really like that. And it's not. Dolly is not. There's nothing wrong with her having anxiety. And. And just through that guidance and getting to. She starts to trust. And even there comes a little bit excitement of going, right, yes, that's right. [00:43:52] Speaker B: At the very end, she's. She's kind of doing this pretty cool maneuver. I won't give it away. But yeah, and you're absolutely right. I think sometimes children's books often make it about the kid having to try to figure out everything on their own, you know, and I'm in an author's group, and sometimes we think, let's make the kid be the. The one that figures out their own solution, which is fine. But it kind of. It kind of creates a little bit of like, almost like a false idea of what it's like to be a kid. Because you're right, we. We need to ask our mentors in our lives, how do I navigate this? You know, how do I get to the next step here? I can't just do it all on my own. You know, that's not how we're wired. We're wired for community. And that's what I love about the pod is, you know, she's got her friends and they learn how to, you know, hunt together or catch fish and use their sonar. And they're working together as a group to be their best. And I think that's, that's what we want to instill in our kids is work together, you know, learn how to be a team player, ask questions. Because we can't do this life alone. And nor. I don't think we're not designed to do it alone. [00:45:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really, really beautiful. And again, you have just a gift of writing these stories that it really relates to the kids. I've seen this because I work with a whole bunch of different kids books when it comes to mindfulness. And I want to go into Puppy mind here in a minute. They relate so direct to, to those concepts that you bring with your books because it's in their everyday life and they get reminded and it's just like, it's incredible. They. They start to get this puppy mind, like language. Shargone. I'm like, well, what did that come from? Like, they totally pick it up. I don't like, wow, this is really incredible. I haven't really seen that, that they do that with a whole bunch of other books. I do want to remind our listener you are listening to Mindful Mud. I'm here with Andrew Jordan Nance, Mindfulness. Mindful schools instructor, I guess I can say, and founder of the Mindful Arts Project in San Francisco. So thank you for being here and exploring all kinds of wonderful things. [00:46:30] Speaker B: You know, one of the things that I really go back to again and again with the kids is the breath and how important it is to breathe correctly. You know, a lot of times I'll go to a workshop or something on maybe Buddhism or mindfulness, and they'll say, you know, just allow the breath to do its thing. You know, just, just, you know, just. There's no wrong way to breathe. Well, as it turns out, a lot of us are breathing into our chests and our shoulders are going up every time we breathe. And we're not really engaging in the diaphragm, which is right, I think right above the stomach. Not a doctor, but. And what I try to do with the kids at every single age is encourage them to breathe into their belly so their belly button should go forward when they breathe. And I even, even from pre K all the way up to fifth, I'll have volunteers come and I'll. I'll have them lay down in the middle of the circle and I'll put like book or the singing bowl, you know, which is one of those things you might ring. And I'll put this upside down and I'll see if they can lift the singing bowl to the, to the ceiling with every breath in. And it's really interesting. Some of the most dysregulated kids are breathing into their chests and they literally cannot move their belly button up towards the ceiling if they're laying down. And it's. I feel like Stanford or something should do a study on breath. You know, the ability to take a slow, deep breath into your belly and the ability to self regulate. Because I feel like there's something there. I know for me, when I'm dysregulated, I'm not breathing. Everything is, is tight. So if I can remember to take a deep breath. Breath wiggle my toes is another nice trick to get the breath down into the lower parts of our body. And even jumping up and down, if you ask any actor if you've ever jumped up and down before going on stage, I think they would all raise their hands because that emotion is just like swirling through you. It's like a, you know, it's like a. A horse ready to, you know, get out of the gate. And you don't know what to do with all that energy. And that's what happens when we have those, you know, those arguments or whatever. That energy is just swirling and we don't know what to do with it. And so if we can take a breath, wiggle our toes, maybe jump up and down. I've done that when I'm walking. I used to have a dog and we'd walk the. I'd walk the dog and I'd start thinking about that thing that really agitated me throughout the day, day. And I would just jump up and down on the street, you know, nothing big. Just kind of shaking it out and allowing it to move through my nervous system, not kind of finding a spot to kind of lodge in my body. And then I'd have to deal with it for the rest of my life, which is, I think, what a lot of people do, right? You know, you're. You. You see something and you go right back to when you were in third grade and that awful thing happened. And, you know, and it's just still in the body. You know, the. There's that great book, the Body Keeps the Score. That's not a joke. It really does. It's a. It's an organism that's trying to keep us safe. And so it's remembering everything. [00:50:22] Speaker A: I love, I love that you go, because that is, for a lot of kids, one of the hardest things, the breathing. Right. Really connecting with the breath. And I, as you said, especially, it shows in dysregulated kids and that you do, like, work with that and make it more and more aware. Yeah. I mean, and as you said, everything goes through the body. I mean, our nervous system is not lying. And for me, as a body worker, that's how I work. Right. In a somatic way. So I do think that's a very big part, for sure. So, you know, I do have to say Puppy Mind is just an incredible book again, because it's just wonderful how the kids relate to it. So if you can introduce Puppy Mind to our listeners, that would be wonderful. [00:51:18] Speaker B: So Puppy Mind is that concept that we all have a daydreaming mind. We could all tell you where our minds like to wander off to, whether it's, you know, what's for dinner tonight or thinking about a trip we might take or going to bed later or what's your favorite TV show or whatever it is. And so I frame it. I ask the kids, what do you like to daydream about? [00:51:45] Speaker A: Or. [00:51:47] Speaker B: Or what happy thing do you like to daydream about? I like to put in the word happy because I didn't do that on a handful of times. And one of those times, times a little girl said, oh, my parents are, you know, divorcing. And so she was worried about them. And so I try to couch it in. In those terms of what happy thing? Because since I'm only in the classroom for a half an hour, I don't want to really want to open up Pandora's box of. Of troubles. I want to keep it fairly light. So Puppy Mind is about that little, little part of our brains that likes to wander into the past or the future. And because it's. If you think about it, we're often thinking about what just happened or what could happen in the future. And the book basically shows that a little boy has this puppy mind that likes to pull him around, likes to run the show and takes them into the past, takes them in the future. In class, he tries to listen to the teacher, but his puppy mind starts to stir. He quickly loses his focus and the day becomes a blur. And you knew you knew the rhyme. And that's actually really fun to do with the kids, is see if they can finish the rhyme. And often the older kids can. And so he uses his Breath to take three slow, deep breaths. He learns to be kind to his mind. And I always say to the kids, you know, we don't want this puppy mind to go away at all, because that's your imagination. You know, I want you to be able to go to Disneyland whenever you think want to, or think of your favorite food, or hanging out with your best friend or playing your favorite video game, but I don't want it running the show. And that's the key, is just to notice. Oops. My puppy mind is in charge. I'm going to let my puppy mind go to sleep, and I'm going to bring my student mind back so I can focus and connect with the teacher and my friends at school. So that's. That's puppy mind in a nutshell. [00:54:05] Speaker A: And it's really great because, you know, I. I used to, like, talk about the monkey mind sometimes to the kids, and they relate so much less than to the puppy mind mind. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Oh, good. [00:54:15] Speaker A: In the way of, like. Yeah, because pretty much almost everybody around here has dogs at home. And then, you know, if you have a puppy, you know, they're just gonna go a little crazy, you know, and. And. And so you have to train them. It's trainable. You can train, right? Unless there's a puppy. Like, you know, sometimes some of the dogs, they have very strong instincts, right? Just like us, too. Sometimes. Sometimes a very big emotion, it will take over, but. But it's. It's so relatable for the kids. So I really, literally, like, I come back the next week after I do puppy mind with them, and they're like, I've noticed my puppy mind go everywhere, and they can't wait to tell me all the time. They noticed. You know, I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, it's really. It's incredible. [00:55:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I have that, too. In the hallway, the kids will say, oh, boy, my puppy mind is really busy today, Mr. Andrew. And I'll say, great job. I'll just give them a high five. And they're always so confused at first because they think, well, wait, aren't I supposed to. No, it's not about perfection. It's about noticing. It's practice makes progress. And that's the thing. And I'll even do that. That game I was talking about, I'll do that in the hallway with the kids. I'll say, you want to. Looks like you're having a big emotion. You want to play that game with me? And I'll do the little body scan thing. Is your heart beating fast? Do you feel big or little? And I'll give them a high five at the end. And they just, they melt. And the emotion, the emotion just goes, Goes away, really. And I'll say, you ready to go back in class? And they usually are. And it's just, you know, it's, it's. I keep coming back to it, but it's just that curiosity that I want to instill in these kids about the. [00:56:15] Speaker A: Puppy mind and another really important part of the puppy mind book and what I really realized, that the kids are catching on so easily because of the way you, you write about it and the illustrations are just, just fabulous. I mean, wow. [00:56:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Is how you put the kindness principle in there, right? So you're, you're kind with the puppy. You can't scream at your mind and shout at it and get angry at your mind because it's just going to get confused and angry and just going to go hide. Right? And it's kind of like that for us, right? We're not learning when we're mad at ourselves. I mean, this is very, very clear there. And, and so the luring it, the puppy mind in with the kindness treats. Right. It's brilliant. And I mean, the kids really get it, like, and they even, they really remember. It's like, yeah, I know. I need, I need to be very kind with my mind. And it's, it keeps working. I'm like, oh, my goodness, it's just wonderful. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I remember just a few weeks ago, a little, A little girl said, you know, last night I almost hit my little brother, but I took three deep breaths instead, you know, and, you know, and she's, she gets it. She. She got it. So, so, yeah, it's, you know, and it's, it's just, it's so fun, you know, our working with our mind should be fun. It shouldn't be like, oh, my God, I'm broken. You know, because none of us are broken. You know, we're just, just, we just require some loving care that we didn't get earlier on in our lives. And, and now's the time and again. [00:58:00] Speaker A: That, that different, different relationship to our emotions, to our mind wanderings and, you know, again, I mean, I know you probably hear that too. It's like a lot of people think when it comes to mindfulness, oh, I can't do this because my mind never gets clean here. Like, that's not it. It's again, it's that noticing, oh, there go again in that loop. Right? And here I go again in that loop. And this is really what's happening in my mind a lot. This is my inner dialogue, getting to know it. [00:58:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:33] Speaker A: And then from there, with kindness and lots of patience and repetition. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:58:40] Speaker A: Bringing it back and create that, that bigger freedom that we all can actually. Really, really. Trans brain. [00:58:47] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. And I like to give the kids and myself actually, you know, an activity to do while meditating. So I might say, all right, let's put your fingers together and do breathing, ball breath while we're sitting. So your mind has some little activity because it wants to be busy. It wants to be helpful. Our minds. That's why it's there is to keep us alive and to be helpful. So if we just do breathing, ball breath, breath for, you know, 10 times while we sit for a minute, it's a really smart way for the kids to feel like they have some agency and that they, they're not going to just wander off. Because it's pretty easy for a kid to wander off to think about what's for lunch or whether a friend likes you or not or whatever it is, you know, or that this is boring or whatever. Because. Because boredom shows up a lot in, in, you know, in a class where you're sitting, you're sitting for, you know, two or three minutes in, in silence. I. I lead. Actually, it's not silent. I lead them through a little meditation and. And so I give them that opportunity to use their hands or even a mantra. I have a little poem that I say with the kids, kids that is helpful for them to stay in the present. [01:00:15] Speaker A: Andre, would you like to explain what that breathing, ball breath is since listeners can't really see you? [01:00:21] Speaker B: Exactly. So what you do is you just put your fingers together, almost like two fish kissing, and then keep your fingers together, but the fingertips touching, fingertips touching. And then when you breathe in, just make a ball with your fingers and keep your fingertips touching. And then close the ball and then breathe in. And you could wiggle your toes at the same time or you could lift your toes with every breath in and relax your toes with every breath out. And it just gives you something to do if you wake up at three in the morning like I do. I. I'm. I'm old enough where I just start waking up at 3 and my body's like, okay, let's do something. So instead of getting upset or frustrated, I'll just do breath work. I have a poem that I'll teach you. If you, if you put up your hand like a starfish and then Put your finger between your thumb and pointer finger. Or just kind of. Kind of ride or. It's also called roller coaster breathing. So you're going to ride the roller coaster. So you're going to breathe in. And when you breathe in, you say with this breath. And then you go down the pointer finger towards the ring finger, and you breathe out. My mind grows stronger. And then go on up the next finger so I can focus a little longer. And you go down. I breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth. That's what focus time is all about. And then you go all the way down to your elbow. [01:02:05] Speaker A: I love that because my kids love the finger breathing. Right. Especially younger grades. But I didn't know the poem. [01:02:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's in the book. There's actually another stanza which the third and fourth and fifth graders are very proud of themselves that they can actually do the next stanza. [01:02:25] Speaker A: Do you want to let the listeners know the title of that book? [01:02:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Mindful arts in the classroom. And there's. There's like 13 stories that I've written. Puppy mind. The text is in there along with a puppy mind activity. There's that game, what are you feeling is in there? The lion and me is also in there as text. And. And then quite a few other stories and art activities and games, theater games. And there's like 20, I think 22 lessons. And each one focuses on a different tenant of mindfulness. So it's really comprehensive. People really seem to enjoy it. And then, of course, make it your own. I've. I've had plea. People turn in. Turn puppy mind into a rat rap. I've heard. I've had people turn some of the stories into plays. There's one about an elephant. There's one about deer in a forest that they turn into a play. And there's one about kindness that is about a rat and a hunter. And then the rat winds up saving him. And so he realizes that kindness has no side. We can be little and be kind, and we can be big and be kind. So it's a sweet story. Yeah. [01:03:54] Speaker A: What gives you the inspirations for these stories? [01:03:57] Speaker B: You know, I. I just get these thought bubbles, and then I. My hands start tingling, and I think, all right, let's. Let's put this energy to good use, and I'll come up with a story. And it's. Yeah, it's fun. I'm in an author's group, so that also kind of compels me to. [01:04:13] Speaker A: To. [01:04:14] Speaker B: To be productive around the writing. I also wrote another book which we actually haven't talked about called the Barefoot King and that this is maybe for older kids and also adults. It's a gorgeous coffee table book. Puppy Mind and the lion and me are illustrated by a guy named Jim Dirk, who was the illustrator for Clifford the Big Red Dog and Tom Thomas the Tank Engine. And then this is a. Is a book. The Barefoot King was illustrated by a woman out of England named Olivia Holden. And she's done these beautiful watercolor like pages with lots of jewel tones. And it's all about a young king who stubs his toe and decided, decides he wants to cover the world in leather. So he never will stub his toe again, nor will his people ever stub their toes. No one will ever get hurt ever again. But of course, we know life isn't like that. We're all going to get hurt at some point. So there's a smarter way than covering the world with leather. It's basically he. He wants to change the world, but learns how to change his mind instead. [01:05:34] Speaker A: Right. [01:05:35] Speaker B: Make smarter choices and not get distracted while you're walking. [01:05:43] Speaker A: Oh, the one with the smart choices, right? Yep. [01:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that's what. I mean, that's what a. What I think is a. Is a good life, is a strategic life, you know, is. Is. Does this strategy serve me? You know, it's just. It's that basic, I think, you know. [01:06:01] Speaker A: And then understanding that we have a choice, I say so often, say to the kids, look, mindfulness to me is the tool that gives me choices. Right? [01:06:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:13] Speaker A: The freedom. If I can stop, slow down, suddenly I see all these choices, all these roads I can walk down. [01:06:22] Speaker B: That's right. [01:06:22] Speaker A: If I'm running, I would just. [01:06:25] Speaker B: That's right. [01:06:26] Speaker A: See, one solution. [01:06:28] Speaker B: I would love to hear your definition that you give to the kids on mindfulness, because I've actually kind of gone rogue. And I don't say it's present moment awareness or anything like that because, you know, a kindergartner, that means absolutely nothing to them. So what I say is mindfulness is the practice of using our breath to focus on our minds and our bodies so we can make smarter choices. So that. That I think is helpful to them because it's actionable. You know, like, just like on stage, you need an action. You need. You can't just say, you know, whatever, just be kind. You have to say, all right, how do you be kind? How do you. What does that look like? You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna pull the chair back for, you know, my scene partner or I'm going to. You know, whatever it is I'm going to. You know, the list goes on and on of how you can be kind to someone in a scene. And this. That's the same thing with mindfulness is. Is how can we be strategic here to. To behave in a way that we feel good about ourselves so we can have a clear head and. And move forward. [01:07:47] Speaker A: And I really think the puppy mind shows that so. Well, that story of what am I actually doing when I practice mindfulness? Oh, I get to know that puppy mind, and I get to train it, and I get to be kind to it and curious with it. Yeah. [01:08:05] Speaker B: Do you have a phrase that you say, like what mindfulness is when you're talking to kids? [01:08:09] Speaker A: You know, it kind of depends which grade I teach, but lately I've been saying just a lot because I want them to, because it's so hard for them to remember what mindfulness is. Right. When you keep asking them, it's like, well, breathing. I'm like, okay, that's part of it. Right. So for me, it has a lot to do with, you know, noticing what is happening right here and right now. Yeah. So. And if I do a little hand action of here and now, they remember, oh, it's about being aware what's going on. And, and. And then I often ask them, so what are you doing right here, right now? Are you noticing? Oh, that's right. You're sitting. Right. We're talking. Yeah. And just kind of bringing it back to that. Yeah. What's happening now? And then for me, it's a lot about curiosity playing, like. And. And, yeah, Yeah. [01:09:13] Speaker B: I, I do something called kfc. I. I say, today may I be kind, today may I be focused, and today may I be curious. And it's just my little mantra that I like to say to myself as I getting out of bed or to the kids. And, and sometimes we'll just. We'll just say it as a group together, just sort of to set the intention for the day, because, you know, without an intention, the day can kind of get away from us, you know, like, oh, I really wasn't, you know, like, even just walking into a supermarket. Like, you know, maybe I'm just a little bit more connected to the checkout person. You know, maybe I'm just a little bit more curious, a little bit more in my body with them rather than thinking about, all right, what's next? You know, what do I have to do after this? [01:10:06] Speaker A: And then we can enjoy. [01:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:09] Speaker A: And we can, we can. We can have that connection that we can actually feel instead of already being at the next thing and the next thing. And then when we're finally there where we wanted to be, then we're still at the next thing. It's an endless loop. [01:10:24] Speaker B: It is. And even for trained practitioners like ourselves, we're. We're. We. We still fall prey to the mind's interest in what's ahead. How can I. How can I be safe as I move towards what. What's ahead? You know, how can I be competent as I move towards ahead? And it's. It's. It's a loop, and we just have to catch ourselves over and over again. And it's a lifelong process. [01:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Wow, Andrew, this time has gone so fast. [01:11:03] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my gosh. Is it that. It's getting. [01:11:06] Speaker A: It's almost. We still have a few minutes left. [01:11:09] Speaker B: Well, you know, this. This isn't mindfulness. But I do want to. I'm going to plug my. My next book. It's called Lazy Susan, and it's the origin stories of all those terms named after people. People, and they're called eponyms. So. So what's the origin story of Lazy Susan? Well, there's a few theories, really. One was Thomas Jefferson had a daughter, and she was always getting served last. So he came up with this thing called a Lazy Susan. One of the other origin stories is. Is. Oh, my gosh, I forgot. I forgot the other origin story of Lazy Susan. But there's, you know, Chatty Kathy, who was Chatty Cathy. His name is Mud. Who was Mud Hillbilly. Great Scott. Graham cracker. [01:12:04] Speaker A: I bet you think Graham crackers. Yeah, right. [01:12:07] Speaker B: I bet people didn't know that that was an actual person, you know, who knew Crapper. And where is that origin story from? Caesar salad. This is a really kind of funny one. I always thought Caesar of Rome just liked salads, right? No, it's a guy, an Italian, moved to Tijuana, Mexico, and was out of certain ingredients and threw together this other salad and he called the Caesar salad. And now when you go to Tijuana, Mexico, you can get good Caesar salads in most of the restaurants, apparently. And, you know, boycott is a person's last name. I didn't know that. [01:12:54] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [01:12:55] Speaker B: You boycott something. Yeah. Gerrymandering not to get political, but apparently Jerry was this, I think, a senator, and he eventually became vice president, but he designed a district that looked a lot like a salamander. So they took his first name, Jerry, and then the last name of Sarah Salamander. And put it together. And that's where we get gerrymandering. Yeah. [01:13:21] Speaker A: Wow. [01:13:24] Speaker B: So it was a really fun rabbit hole to go down, I have to tell you. [01:13:27] Speaker A: How did you get inspired to write it, even? I just. [01:13:30] Speaker B: I was. I think we had. We were at a restaurant and there was a lazy Susan. And I was like, well, who was Susan? And then we started riffing on all the other ones that we use all the time. You know, like going to the john or I'm jonesing for, you know, a cookie. You know, who was. [01:13:50] Speaker A: Okay. What is that? Who is John? [01:13:52] Speaker B: Okay. In the 1960s, especially in New York. Oh, this is interesting. Heroin, as well as heroin addicts, dealers, withdrawals, and drug addiction itself were all colloquial, colloquially referred to as Jones and Mr. Jones. [01:14:10] Speaker A: Jones. [01:14:11] Speaker B: One popular but unsubstantiated story has it that Jones Alley in Manhattan used to serve as a hub for heroin addicts. So to be jonesing for something, you were thinking about that alley in. In Manhattan. So there you go. And now we use it as sort of like a positive thing. I'm jonesing for a pizza or whatever, you know, a cookie or whatever. Joshua Tree. Who was Joshua? It just goes on and on. It's all in here, and it's super fun. It's a great gift. And it actually, you know, kind of helps you be focused and present and in the moment and mindful. So, yeah, it's. [01:14:56] Speaker A: It's. It's sweet to kind of. Language is such a trip. And for me, you know, that's my sec. It's not my mother's tongue. Right. I grew up in Switzerland, so I'm. [01:15:06] Speaker B: Okay. I wondered if you. [01:15:07] Speaker A: You okay. So I. I actually often think about. Wait, what? That doesn't even make any sense. I. I dig that kind of language. [01:15:19] Speaker B: Stuff, you know, and you just have to memorize it, you know, like. All right, well, this is what I say when I'm jonesing for a pizza. I don't know. I don't know why, but I'm. I'll say it because this is what people say. Yeah. It make. It's. You're absolutely right. It makes no sense at all until. [01:15:37] Speaker A: It kind of does if there's a story linked to it. Yeah. [01:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. [01:15:43] Speaker A: So, Andrew, how can people, like. You got a website. Right. How can people kind of find out more about your books, about your work? [01:15:51] Speaker B: Absolutely. So you can get my books anywhere books are sold. If they don't have them in. In stock, I encourage you to order them. It's always Great. To support your local bookstores, then I have a website, andrewjordanance.com and then if you're in the same. [01:16:08] Speaker A: You want to spell that quick for listeners. [01:16:11] Speaker B: Andrew. A N D R E W Jordan J O r d a nance n a n c e.com and then also Mindful Art San Francisco is the organization that are the. It's the program that I found, and it's a. It's a program underneath the auspices of the San Francisco Education Fund, which is the volunteer arm of the school district. So. But we have our own webpage, and then it'll link you to our upcoming trainings, which will be in the fall. And, and again, if you want to start your own mindfulness program in your own area, the book is a really great, great leaping off point for that. And there's also other books available out there as well if you're interested. So. And then one other thing that I didn't mention is if you go to my website, I have breathing cards. So, like breathing ball breath we talked about. There's, there's 50 different ways to breathe, and it's a great little gift to give to a teacher or your grandkids. And you can learn 50 different ways to breathe, like dolphin breathing or spidey breathing or Wonder Woman breath or cowgirl breath or Superman breath. Really fun ways. Have. I should send you. Have you. I should send you some Florina. I'll do that. [01:17:41] Speaker A: Oh, this is sweet. [01:17:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll send you this this week. I'll make sure I get your address. Yeah, they're really helpful and it's fun way to, you know, get the kids involved because they'll come up with their own ways to bring breathe. Do you have, do you have stories like that, too? [01:17:57] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really great. [01:18:00] Speaker B: It's really fun. So. So, yeah, so it, you can make a game out of it. It can, you know, you can choose a kid every week to choose the way to breathe for, you know, maybe breathe 10 times together, that sort of thing. [01:18:15] Speaker A: So, so many resources, Andrew, that you're providing. That. That's just wonderful. And thank you again so much for being here, sharing your enthusiasm about mindfulness with kids and adults. Right. [01:18:32] Speaker B: Thank you. It's been a pleasure. And I just love hearing that you're doing such similar work where you are. And I just. It's so nice to know that the, you know, the ripples of the pond are, are going further and further out into the world. So. So thank you. [01:18:48] Speaker A: That's true. There are lots of things that we can do. [01:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:52] Speaker A: Fulfill us and can be good for the community we live in. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you also listener, for tuning in and listening to Mindful Mud. This has been a KMUT podcast to listen to other shows and more episodes of this show. [01:19:08] Speaker B: Find us on all the platforms where you get your podcast and also on our website, kmut.